Hi Massie;
Massie wrote:
> I recieved a post at my other computer today regarding the role of God
> and understanding of what upholds the laws of physics. The issue is not
> the currently favoureed view of quantum gravity or relativistic
> gravity. The question is what uphold the laws of the universe and our
> limited understanding.
This is a metaphysical question outside the purview of science. Thus, you
will never receive a satisfactory scientific response. Again, for the
christian, the metaphysical answer is simple: God did it and it is what God
did that we call laws; i.e. contingency.
> Keep in mind that a law is simply a description
> or formula or something we use to characterize how it acts. It does not
> explain how it acts except by appealing to some more fundamental law and
> then to some other more fundamental law.
Actually, physical law relates a physical cause (read explanation) to a
measurable response (read how it acts). Hence, to say gravity causes the
tides is an explanation of the tidal cycles. To say gravity is an
interaction among quanta of the gravitational quantum field is a further
explanation of gravity describing precisely "how it acts" - how be it one
not yet worked out! (but have faith; some brilliant minds are on the job.
:-) )
> Atoms are made from nucleons
> and electrons and nucleons are made from quarks and so forth. We never
> do and can never know the most fundametal "what is" because it is not
> knowable
How do you know? :-) If indeed, as a Christian, we believe in God as the
sustaining all things then - as a Christian - God is in Christ: a person
with whom we have intimate knowledge; but this is christian metaphysics.
> and physics does not realy contend to explain really anything.
You can't really mean this, for you just nicely explained the structure of
the atom using physics!
>
> For example, taking Newtonian gravity, is there some other dimension
> when there is some computer constanting solving the forces and motions
> and then some hidden actuators moving the masses about according to the
> correct and exact law of gravity?
No :-); such speculation is science fiction (not metaphysics) and
superfluous.
> Well, if not, how does the particle
> know where to go and how does it get there? There has to underneath it
> all be at least some explanation. This explanation is what???
>
> Bert Massie
Again, the answer is quanta ("particles") exchange among massive objects
according to the yet to be worked out quantum gravity - oh yea - and
photons! :-)
Bert, metaphysics is important but distinct from physics. However, I
sympathize with the human desire to know in the ontological sense of
knowing; but this ontological level is impossible due to our role as
observers of phenomena outside of our skulls. Hence; except for the very
important exception of each person's inner universe of the mind, the best we
can do is to know sensually; but this is knowing at some level. I do believe
in progress and convergence toward a real truth.
With regards;
George A.
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Hi Massie;
Massie wrote:
I recieved a post at my other computer today regarding the role of GodThis is a metaphysical question outside the purview of science. Thus, you will never receive a satisfactory scientific response. Again, for the christian, the metaphysical answer is simple: God did it and it is what God did that we call laws; i.e. contingency.
and understanding of what upholds the laws of physics. The issue is not
the currently favoureed view of quantum gravity or relativistic
gravity. The question is what uphold the laws of the universe and our
limited understanding.
Keep in mind that a law is simply a descriptionActually, physical law relates a physical cause (read explanation) to a measurable response (read how it acts). Hence, to say gravity causes the tides is an explanation of the tidal cycles. To say gravity is an interaction among quanta of the gravitational quantum field is a further explanation of gravity describing precisely "how it acts" - how be it one not yet worked out! (but have faith; some brilliant minds are on the job. :-) )
or formula or something we use to characterize how it acts. It does not
explain how it acts except by appealing to some more fundamental law and
then to some other more fundamental law.
Atoms are made from nucleonsHow do you know? :-) If indeed, as a Christian, we believe in God as the sustaining all things then - as a Christian - God is in Christ: a person with whom we have intimate knowledge; but this is christian metaphysics.
and electrons and nucleons are made from quarks and so forth. We never
do and can never know the most fundametal "what is" because it is not
knowable
and physics does not realy contend to explain really anything.You can't really mean this, for you just nicely explained the structure of the atom using physics!
No :-); such speculation is science fiction (not metaphysics) and superfluous.
For example, taking Newtonian gravity, is there some other dimension
when there is some computer constanting solving the forces and motions
and then some hidden actuators moving the masses about according to the
correct and exact law of gravity?
Well, if not, how does the particleAgain, the answer is quanta ("particles") exchange among massive objects according to the yet to be worked out quantum gravity - oh yea - and photons! :-)
know where to go and how does it get there? There has to underneath it
all be at least some explanation. This explanation is what???Bert Massie
Bert, metaphysics is important but distinct from physics. However, I sympathize with the human desire to know in the ontological sense of knowing; but this ontological level is impossible due to our role as observers of phenomena outside of our skulls. Hence; except for the very important exception of each person's inner universe of the mind, the best we can do is to know sensually; but this is knowing at some level. I do believe in progress and convergence toward a real truth.
With regards;
George A.
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