>From what I have from you below seems to indicate that you maybe familiar
with philosophy (at least in part). But if you invert the pyramid... that
yields science, not theology as the 1st principle. That is what "secular"
science does -> and that is my point here.
Now that we have the first principle <or> Logia settled, I will now check
your knowledge of science. We will strart here:
1) Quantum Mechanics
a. Heisenberg's principle
b. Schrodinger's Cat
c. M.W.I. "Many Worlds Interpretation"
Now John... How do you reconcile physics and chemistry with determinism?,
given the principles listed above (without the pyramid)????
Best Wishes,
William - N6RKY
John Neal wrote:
>
> William,
> Theistic evolution is not merely "mode of creation". It in very
> direct and intentional ways negates the truth of God's word. An
> unbeleiver shunning the faith in the cross is immaterial. Truth is
> independent of any man's reception of it, and in no way must truth be
> "bent" to accomodate the lack of faith of the man.
> I understand a model of Knowledge known as THE PYRAMID, that it is
> formed by science and experience (at the base), transcended by
> mathematic principles, which is transcended by philosophical principles,
> and finally by THEOLOGICAL <or> 1st Principles. And, I acknowledge that
> we as Christians view Christ as that, that is, the 1st Principle,
> according to John 1:1. However, truth be known, THE PYRAMID, as it
> stands, is diametrically opposed to truth, for it seeks its definition
> and direction from science and experience, and not from revelation from
> God. THE PYRAMID needs to be inverted. It is simply backwards, or
> upside down, and therefore, utterly in error.
> We Christians, do not walk by the sight of our eyes for our
> understanding and guidance in this world of flesh. Rather we
> Christians, as we've been instructed by our apostles and prophets,
> Romans 8:14, for example (For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,
> they are the sons of God), follow the spirit of our Lord. We know that
> to follow the sight of our own eyes is to, by definition, follow
> corruption. And we just don't do that. No, you see, we don't follow
> heretical, that is, divisive, doctrines of devils, for example, the
> abominal doctrine of theistic evolution. We obediently follow the
> language of our Lord Jesus (JEHOVAH IS SALVATION) for guidance.
> I know that you're argument concerning Y.E.C.'s, O.E.C's, & Designer
> advocates who attempt to use a form of philosophy to defend their
> positions usually falling apart in first year science courses is
> probably a valid one. However, my position certainly hasn't fallen
> apart, nor can it ever, even though my teachers specifically and
> explicitly taught things such as, "in reality, we can actually know
> nothing." Preying on the hopeful intentions of youthful minds is
> disgusting. I certainly know that it is indeed a tradgedy that the
> heathen wield such power over the impressionablity of ungrounded souls.
> And, that, after all, is why those who hold to the truth of the
> scripture lose their footing in patently pagan "science" classes in the
> first place, they're not quite grounded. And, that, after all, is why
> those patently pagan "science" classes exist in the first place. The
> thrust and goal of modern "science" is nothing more than the systematic
> irradication of God, which is by definition a futal effort, an
> impossibility, an outright wish for death.
> We, as Christians, already know this. It's been prophecied by our
> Lord centuries ago. We also know that there will be casualties, that
> is, that there are those of us who will succomb to the errors of this
> world and forsake their faith in Christ. We certainly don't take this
> lightly, nor can we escape the pain of what we know of the final outcome
> of those who forsake Christ. However, we are also given comfort in the
> fact that salvation depends not upon us, but upon our Lord's grace,
> viz., salvation is not obtained by our own utterly insufficient attempts
> to do good deeds, or even think good thoughts, for that matter, of
> righteousness, but, rather, salvation is obtained by the sole bequest of
> our benevolent, and all powerful God. That is why we are so thankful,
> why we can't stand evil, and why we are steadfast and unmoveable. We
> have the only gift worth having, eternal life.
> We also know that there is rampant compromise, it's been prophesied
> in our scriptures, e.g., Is6:9 "And he said, Go, and tell this people,
> Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
> Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut
> their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and
> understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Then said I,
> Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without
> inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly
> desolate, And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great
> forsaking in the midst of the land. But yet in it shall be a tenth, and
> it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak,
> whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy
> seed shall be the substance thereof." And, more recent, 2TH2:3 "Let no
> man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there
> come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of
> perdition[.]" Now, what is there to be fallen away from but the truth?
> So, the ensnaring of the mass of humanity is according to God's holy
> desires. God will shake that which can be shaken that only his kingdom
> shall stand. Evolution and Theistic Evolution are nothing more than
> God's shaking of those which can be shaken. And, don't misunderstand me
> here, I am certainly not saying that I am immune to this deception on my
> own power. It is God, and God alone who provides me with the power of
> faith to overcome this, and for this, I am eternally in his debt. The
> fact of the matter is, is that none has to perish. God isn't willing
> that any perish. Salvation is a hinged door that has been sprung open
> by the revelation of Jesus Christ. But it will close one day. Christ
> isn't coming back the second time as the savior of mankind, but the
> firey judge.
> So, science must not be advanced under any other auspice than to
> spread truth and love. It's how you conceive of these that make it
> difficult to understand how science can advance truth and love, and it's
> how you cling to your sins for fear of exposure that makes science a
> slave to the interpretation of the mass of sinful men and women. If you
> just let the truth speak for itself, you'd see that evolution is utter
> abomination. A priori reasoning is only appropriate when you know the
> absolute truth. And if evolution is true, how come there's no proof?
-- William A. Wetzel icq-uin# 13983514 http://home.pacbell.net/n6rky http://www.qsl.net/n6rky mailto:n6rky@pacbell.net mailto:n6rky@qsl.net