Also, I know of no FLood catastrophist who proposes that all Calcite and
related minerals had to form within the 1200 or so years between the
Creation week and the catastrophe. Much related minerals was probably
part of the original creation.
Someone asked for JUST ONE LIE to be dealt with. This may not be a lie,
but it is a straw man and I [and some friends] are dealing with it.
> Hi Allen,
>
> C. N. loaned me Krauskopf's Introduction To Geochemistry, 2nd. ed, so
> I could look at the table your opponent was getting his information from. He is
> mistaken about the purpose of that table and misused the 270 Kcal in his
> calculation. He made improper use of the information in the table of Standard Free
> Energy, Enthalpies, and Entropies. He was using the Gibbs free energy value for
> the product Calcite (CaC03). That value does not represent the heat liberated by
> the precipitation of calcite from solution.
>
> One uses this table, for one thing, to determine whether or not a reaction
> will procede as written.
> delta-G = delta-H - T(delta-S)
>
> delta-G is the change in free energy of a system for a process at constant
> temperature. Spontaneity and equilibrium at constant temperature and pressure in
> terms of delta-G is:
>
> delta-G < 0 is a spontaneous reaction
> delta-G > 0 is a nonspontaneous reaction. The reaction is spontaneous in the
> reverse direction.
> delta-G = 0 is a system at equilibrium. There is no net change.
>
> According to Krauskopf, the actual reaction we are interested in is:
> CaCO3 + H2CO3 <=> Ca^-2 + 2HCO3^-
> reactants products
>
> To calculate the Standard Free Energy of a reaction (rxn),
> delta-Grxn = [(Sum)delta-G(products)] - [(Sum)delta-G(reactants)]
>
> The above equilibrium equation will not proceed as written. You can check that by
> adding the delta-G's of CaCO3 and H2CO3 and subtract the sum of the delta-G's for
> Ca^-2 and 2HCO3^-. Those values are taken from the table your opponent misused.
>
> delta-G for CaCO3 = -269.9
> delta-G for H2CO3 = -148.94
> delta-G for Ca^-2 = -132.3
> delta-G for 2HCO3^- = 2(-140.26)
>
> putting these values into the general equation
> delta-Grxn = [-132.3 + (2)(-140.26)] - [-269.9 + - 148.94]
>
> this gives a value of 6.66 kcal/mol. The result is positive, i.e., delta-G > 0,
> meaning the reaction is spontaneous in the reverse direction. That's what the
> table values are all about.
>
> There was an error in the calculation I made the other day using the
> solubility product of CaCO3 because Chang's book, a more recent chemistry text,
> uses a different value for the Ksp than Krauskopf. Chang's value is 8.7 x 10^-9
> and Krauskopf's is 4.5 x 10^-9. This made a difference in the calculation of Gibbs
> free energy based on delta-G = RTlnK
>
> Allen, your opponent inappropriatly used the table. The calculations were
> fine, he simply used the wrong method of determining heat liberation.
>
>
> Ask him if he knows there is a direct relationship between the solubility of CaCO3
> and its precipitation.
>
> Please look at the calculation I made concerning delta-G.
> According to Krauskopf's data in the table from which you opponent was
> getting his 270 kcals was improperly used by him. The precipitation of CaCO3
> produces an overall increases in Gibbs free energy of 6.6 kcals:
>
> d-G(of rxn) = Sum(d-Gs of products) - Sum(d-Gs of reactants)
>
> Putting the numbers given in Krauskopf's table results in 6.6 kcals.
>
> However, if you calculate the d-G from Ksp, the solubility product, the
> equation to use is
>
> d-G - RTlnK
> R = gas constant
> T = kelvins
> lnK = natural log of K
>
> Using Chang's updated values, the preciptation reaction of CaCO3 results in a
> d-G of 1.1 kcals.
If, and it is an if which no flood catastrophist proposes, all the
limestone were mysteriously precipitated during the flood catastrophe,
the heat generated by that precipitation would not pose a problem. Not
only is the heat of reaction insignificant, the reaction is controled by
salts which can keep the heat generated even further limited. I
understand that several flood catastrophist scientists, who know their
chemistry, are looking for heat sources in order to sufficiently raise
the average temperature of the flood waters for such things as the
triggering of the post flood Ice Age.
Allen