Re: Socrates & Jesus

sschaff@MAILBOX.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Sun, 17 Mar 1996 19:20:38 -0800 (PST)

I don't think the issue of manuscript dates is all that important in
assessing what we know about either Jesus or Socrates. With one
exception, the texts that we have about Jesus are not generally thought
to have suffered significant corruption since their composition (the
one exception is the account of Jesus in Josephus). I don't think there's
much worry about changes to the texts about Socrates during their
transmission either. Where the sources do differ is in how close their
are to their subject. For Jesus, the closest clearly identifiable
source is Paul, who reports second-hand information. For Socrates,
the closest sources are Plato and Xenophon, both of whom knew him
first-hand, and both of whom we can place independently. There's
also a caricature (probably not a particularly fair one) of Socrates
in one of Aristophanes' plays (_The Clouds_), written during Socrates'
lifetime.

As for whose teachings are more faithfully recorded, I think you'll
get different answers from different people.

Steve Schaffner sschaff@slac.stanford.edu
Opinions expressed may be mine, and || Immediate assurance is an excellent sign
may not be those of SLAC, || of probable lack of insight into the
Stanford University, or the DOE. || topic. Josiah Royce

> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 09:28:59 -0500
> From: Ken W Smith <ken.w.smith@cmich.edu>
> Hi John,
>
> At 09:21 PM 3/15/96 EST, you wrote:
> >Question has arisn on a Compuserve forum -- is more known
> >about Socrates than Jesus -- or vice versa. Has anyone a book reference?
[...]
> McDowell's book does discuss exactly this problem and claims the
> oldest copy of the writings of Plato date to about 900 AD. Most of what we
> know about Socrates comes through the writings of Plato.
[...]
> But if we try to restrict, say, to the century after the death of
> the individual then it is an interesting problem. The next question is
> still "What do we count?" Do we count just fragments from that time period
> or do we allow later copies of things written from that time period? The
> Beatty papyrus of John has been dated (by some) to about 125 AD and it was
> believed that a fragment in the Dead Sea scrolls was of Mark, about 50-60
> AD! I don't believe *anyone* claims there is a fragment on the writings of
> Plato which date to within a century of Socrates' death.