Re: [asa] Manhattan Declaration

Heya Gordon,

Anyone can sign, I believe. I'm a nobody and they let me sign!

Incidentally, while I agree that 'trying to impugn the Christian character'
of others is in bad taste - I wish TEs and ID proponents could get closer
than they are - I will point out that the theology card (heresy, deism, etc)
has been played against ID, including by some TEs.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 5:34 PM, gordon brown <Gordon.Brown@colorado.edu>wrote:

> How was it decided whom to invite to sign the declaration? This might
> explain the distribution of signees.
>
> Gordon Brown (ASA member)
>
>
>
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, Jon Tandy wrote:
>
>
>> This is precisely the sort of thing we don't need. Not that I see
>> anything
>> wrong with the Manhattan Declaration itself, but with Dempski's
>> pontificating on how TEs are less Christian than ID supporters. This is
>> classic warfare theology, not over science but over personal faith.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any mention of how widely the Declaration has been distributed to
>> date? This is the first I've heard of it.
>>
>> If it was widely distributed, why are there only 149 Christians who have
>> signed it?
>>
>> Is there any evidence that a wide sampling of those "adamantly committed
>> to
>> theistic evolution" have been made aware of the Declaration, and have
>> openly
>> rejected it because it conflicted with their theological commitments?
>>
>> Is there any evidence that there even IS a large population of those
>> "adamantly committed to theistic evolution"? (More often than not, they
>> seem to distance themselves from the term.)
>>
>> Does Bill Dempski's personal knowledge of 17% of the signers on the list
>> make a representative sampling with which to pontificate about the
>> theological fidelity of TEs in general?
>>
>> Does it strike anyone as odd that 12% of those Dempski knows about
>> personally, in his own words "support evolutionary theory"; and yet he
>> finds
>> it necessary to brush that little detail aside in his attempt to bash TE
>> and
>> Christians who hold that view?
>>
>>
>>
>> This is really outrageous and irresponsible of him. I haven't read
>> Dempski
>> much, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised, but just throwing in my two cents
>> worth.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, that's not to say that there couldn't be some correlation between
>> those
>> who lean against signing such a declaration and those who accept
>> evolutionary explanations. I could see it as certainly possible that
>> people
>> who are "liberal leaning" theologically might also be more open to
>> evolution
>> than those who are openly conservative or fundamentalist. So is Bill
>> right
>> in some sense? And if so, does that reflect anything about the
>> theological
>> position called "theistic evolution", or does it reflect more on the
>> ideological propensities of *some* of those who are more open to TE, which
>> is potentially a thing of a different nature entirely? In the same way,
>> someone might disparage "biblical criticism" in general because of the
>> tendency of those such as the Jesus Seminar to hold a lower view of
>> scripture than their more conservative brethren.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon Tandy
>>
>>
>>
>> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Dave Wallace
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:28 PM
>> To: ASA
>> Subject: [asa] Manhattan Declaration
>>
>>
>>
>> This looks like something we should discuss that is not related to the
>> sign
>> that the Magi saw or purloined emails. I suspect some would strongly
>> object
>> to some parts of the declaration.
>>
>> It does not look appropriate for those not from the USofA to sign.
>>
>> The President says that he wants to reduce the ?need? for abortion-a
>> commendable goal. But he has also pledged to make abortion more easily and
>> widely available by eliminating laws prohibiting government funding,
>> requiring waiting periods for women seeking abortions, and parental
>> notification for abortions performed on minors. The elimination of these
>> important and effective pro-life laws cannot reasonably be expected to do
>> other than significantly increase the number of elective abortions by
>> which
>> the lives of countless children are snuffed out prior to birth.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave W
>>
>>
>> 25 November 2009
>>
>> Manhattan Declaration ? Where are the theistic evolutionists?
>>
>> WILLIAM DEMBSKI
>>
>>
>> About 150 Christian leaders were the original signatories of the recent
>> manifesto asserting the sanctity of life, traditional marriage, and
>> liberty
>> of conscience ? the Manhattan Declaration. At the time of this writing,
>> over
>> a 100,000 have signed it (including me). I encourage readers of UD to read
>> the document and sign it if it reflects your views on God and culture.
>>
>> Of the 150 original signers, I know about 25 personally. Interestingly,
>> the
>> original signers seem overwhelmingly pro-ID. That raises the question why
>> no
>> notable theistic evolutionists are signers (e.g., Francis Collins). To be
>> sure, signers such as Tim Keller and Dinesh D?Souza have indicated an
>> openness to evolutionary theory. But I?m not finding any among the signers
>> who are adamantly committed to theistic evolution, seeing it as the only
>> way
>> to be both scientifically and theologically responsible.
>>
>> Perhaps I?m missing something here. If so, I?m happy to be disabused. But
>> is
>> it possible that ID is friendlier to classic Christian teaching on the
>> sanctity of life, traditional marriage, and liberty of conscience than
>> theistic evolution? It not, I?d like to see the names of theistic
>> evolutionists who are also signers of the Manhattan Declaration.
>>
>> ??
>>
>> Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian Conscience
>> November 20, 2009
>>
>> The following is the text of the Manhattan Declaration signed by 149
>> pro-life and Catholic and evangelical and Orthodox Christian leaders.
>> LifeNews.com supports the pro-life aims of the resolution.
>>
>> http://manhattandeclaration.org
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/manhattan-declaration-whe
>> re-are-the-theistic-evolutionists/
>>
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>>
>>

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Received on Wed Nov 25 17:40:26 2009