You have to read Larson's site but I think he has a good explanation for this. See below. It is a conjunction of Jupiter and Regulas both of which symoblized kings in ancient astrology, and further it happened in the constellation Virgo. As I said this was all dependent on the ancients inferring all this meaning from these events as Larson says but it does seem possible to me.
To David C. I will concede that this level of symbolism and ancient folklore that these prophecies are dependent on do imply that God predestined this meaning in the culture and somehow sewed the seeds for that for centuries before the advent for this to make any sense. But that is consistent with how I think God works in the earth and fulfills His prophecy so I don't see any problem with that.
Thanks
John
A Coronation (top)
JUPITER. The name of the greatest god of Roman mythology. And the name of the largest planet of our solar system. Jupiter has been known from ages-old to the present as the King Planet. This greatest of planets is a "gas giant," approximately eleven times the size of Earth and over 300 times more massive. It circles the Sun far beyond Earth, in an orbit of about twelve years duration. In ancient times, planets like Jupiter were considered "wandering stars." Since humans have assigned kingly qualities to this giant wanderer for dozens of centuries, might it have something to do with our Star announcing the birth of a king? That will be our working theory.
It's not enough to have a kingly name and reputation, of course. To be Matthew's Star, Jupiter as viewed from Earth would have to do peculiar things. More precisely, as considered by a magus viewing from the Middle East during the years 3 and 2 BC, Jupiter's movements would have to satisfy all nine identifying characteristics of the Star. In September of 3 BC at the time of the Jewish New Year, Rosh ha-Shanah, Jupiter began to do just that.
A magus watching Jupiter that September saw two objects moving so close that they appeared to touch. This close approach of celestial bodies is sometimes called a 'conjunction.' Our Middle Eastern viewer saw Jupiter coming into a close conjunction with the star, Regulus. Regulus takes its name from the word root which yields our word 'regal.' The Babylonians called Regulus Sharu, which means 'king.' The Romans called Regulus Rex, which means 'king.' So to start things, at the beginning of the new Jewish year, the Planet of Kings met the Star of Kings. This conjunction may have indicated kingship in a forceful way to a Babylonian magus (satisfying one qualification for the Star), but would it have startled him?
Probably not. Jupiter glides slowly past Regulus about every 12 years. Let's assume our magus enjoyed a 50-year career, say from age 20 to age 70. We don't know how old the Magi were, but if our man was in the second half of his career, he might have seen such a pass two or three times before. Jupiter's orbit wobbles relative to Regulus, so not every conjunction is as close as the one he saw in 3 BC. Perhaps our magus recorded this event with some interest, but it is hard to imagine great excitement. Not from this alone. But, of course, there is more.
The planets move against the field of fixed stars. From Earth, they appear to be "active." For example, were you to watch Jupiter each night for several weeks, you would see that it moves eastward through the starry field. Each night Jupiter rises in the east (satisfying a second Star qualification). Each night it appears to be slightly farther east in the field of fixed stars. All of the planets move like this.
But the wandering stars exhibit another, stranger motion. Periodically, they appear to reverse course and move backward through the other stars. This may seem odd, but the reason is simple enough: we watch the planets from a moving platform—Earth—hurtling around the Sun in its own orbit. When you pass a car on the freeway, it appears to go backward as it drops behind. For similar reasons, when the Earth in its orbit swings past another planet, that planet appears to move backward against the starry field. Astronomers call this optical effect retrograde motion.
In 3/2 BC, Jupiter's retrograde wandering would have called for our magus' full attention. After Jupiter and Regulus had their kingly encounter, Jupiter continued on its path through the star field. But then it entered retrograde. It "changed its mind" and headed back to Regulus for a second conjunction. After this second pass it reversed course again for yet a third rendezvous with Regulus, a triple conjunction. A triple pass like this is more rare. Over a period of months, our watching magus would have seen the Planet of Kings dance out a halo above the Star of Kings. A coronation.
The Birth of a King (top)
Jupiter's interesting behavior may explain the kingly aspect of the Star. But there are nine qualifications of the Star of Bethlehem. Many are still missing. How did Jupiter's movement relate to the Jewish nation? Is its association with the Jewish New Year enough? Where is an indication of a birth? Some might say that the triple conjunction by itself would indicate to a magus that a new king was on the scene. Maybe. But there is more.
The Jewish nation is composed of twelve ancient tribes. Jewish prophecy states that a particular tribe will bring forth the Messiah: the tribe of Judah. The symbol of Judah's tribe is the lion. You can see these connections in an ancient prediction of Messiah's coming found in the first book of the Bible, the Book of Genesis, Chapter 49:
9 You are a lion's cub, O Judah; you return from the prey, my son. Like a lion he crouches and lies down, like a lioness-- who dares to rouse him? 10 The sceptre will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.
This association of Messiah with the tribe of Judah and with the lion is a productive clue. It clarifies the connection between Jupiter's behavior and the Jewish nation, because the starry coronation—the triple conjunction—occurred within the constellation of Leo, The Lion. Ancient stargazers, particularly if they were interested in things Jewish, may well have concluded they were seeing signs of a Jewish king. But there is more.
The last book of the New Testament is, in part, a prophetic enigma. But a portion of the Book of Revelation provides clear and compelling guidance for our astronomical investigation. The apostle John wrote the book as an old man while in exile on the island of Patmos. Perhaps the austerity of this exile or a lack of companionship left him time to ponder the night sky. Whatever the reason, Revelation is full of star imagery. In Chapter 12, John describes a life and death drama played out in the sky: the birth of a king.
1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre...
A woman in labor, a dragon bent on infanticide and a ruler of the nations. We have already seen this ruler in the Book of Genesis, above. This would be the Messiah, in his role as King of Kings. If that interpretation is correct, then according to the gospel story the woman would be Mary, the mother of Jesus. The dragon which waits to kill the child at birth would be Herod, who did that very thing. John says the woman he saw was clothed in the Sun. She had the moon at her feet. What can he be describing? When we continue our study of the sky of September of 3 BC, the mystery of John's vision is unlocked: he is describing more of the starry dance which began with the Jewish New Year.
As Jupiter was beginning the coronation of Regulus, another startling symbol rose in the sky. The constellation which rises in the east behind Leo is Virgo, The Virgin. When Jupiter and Regulus were first meeting, she rose clothed in the Sun. And as John said, the moon was at her feet. It was a new moon, symbolically birthed at the feet of The Virgin.
The sheer concentration of symbolism in the stars at this moment is remarkable. These things could certainly lead our magus to conclude that a Jewish king had been born. But even this is not the whole story. These symbols could indicate a birth, but if they were interpreted to indicate the time of conception, the beginning of a human life, might there be something interesting in the sky nine months later? Indeed. In June of 2 BC, Jupiter continued the pageantry.
----- Original Message ----
From: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
To: asa <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Sun, November 22, 2009 12:07:08 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] Star of Bethlehem presentation?
Also- how would the Magi figure out that a bright light had anything to do with the supernatural? It wasn't foretold in the Bible, so isn't it just ancient astronomy that is revealed in the Scriptures? For example today, I can't imagine astronomers (todays magi, in the 'wise men' sense) seeing anything in space and saying it is some kind of god-sign. But of course those who practice astrology today (magi in the sense of astrologers) seeing probably everything as a 'sign' (what sign are you?).
...Bernie
(Friend of ASA)
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 8:37 AM
To: asa
Subject: RE: [asa] Star of Bethlehem presentation?
Merv said:
"He does come away convinced that it was an astronomical
event ---- but nothing so silly as we try to imagine that would hover
in the air and stop over a stable, etc. "
Silly? Isn't that what the text pretty much implies?
Matt 2 seems to imply that the star stopped exactly over the house, in order to identify the actual house:
Matt 2
9After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. 11On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh.
If the light didn't stop over a house, how would they know where the child king was? It could have been any newborn in town (and anyone would have claimed it to get the gifts). Don't you think there was likely more than one newborn in the city? From stat's, it looks like my State of Oregon has a birth rate of about 1.3% of the population per year. If they had that rate, and 30,000 people (just a wild guess), that would be 390 births per year, or more than 1 per day. If the baby was 2 weeks old, that would be more than 14 to choose from... or do you think they arrived on the same day of the birth?
Does Larson's hypothesis go as far as to explain how the house was identified? Or is that major part still a mystery? It wouldn't be much of an explanation if it only explains part of the problem- how a big light could appear in the sky. The rest of the story is a blur for someone interested in reality and an explanation?
So either the light appeared over the right house, or some major details are missing as to how the magi were able to sort through all the babies to know which one was the new king. The story implies that the light identified the child, and nothing at all is said about difficulties resulting from trying to find the right kid in the town.
...Bernie
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Merv Bitikofer
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 3:13 PM
To: David Clounch; asa
Subject: Re: [asa] Star of Bethlehem presentation?
Mr. Larson (the here discussed Star of Bethlehem researcher) is way
ahead of you David. You should actually read his stuff before you nay
say it. I guess John posted some excerpts which might summarize some of
his points pretty well. I went in as a skeptic, but came out impressed
with his methods of inquiry. He does approach it unapologetically as a
Christian and with the stated assumption that he is going to take the
Biblical record of the event seriously. Far be it from me to hold that
against him. He does come away convinced that it was an astronomical
event ---- but nothing so silly as we try to imagine that would hover
in the air and stop over a stable, etc. You must have a lot of trouble
understanding apocalyptic literature in Revelation with its stars
falling out of the sky! :-> For that matter, I do too. But I
guess, for all my confusion, it hasn't occurred to me to actually try to
take it as literal commentary on cosmic movements according to 20th
century definition!
--Merv
David Clounch wrote:
> I agree. What ever made anybody think a bright light in the sky must
> always come from a solar mass? Those in 1 BC who were looking for
> the Christ child would have said a satellite is a star. They would
> have said the lights on a 747 are stars. If a helicopter with a
> floodlamp flew over them they would have said it was a star.
>
> Stars which are actual solar masses rise in the east, and set in the
> west, every night following the same path across the next few hours.
> They go east to west. So, if you have a clock, and sample their
> position exactly 1/2 hour before dawn, you can say they are west of
> you. But at sunset they rise east of you. In the middle of the night
> they are directly above you (adjusted for latitude of course).
>
>
> Contrast this to a satellite in geosynchronous orbit. If it is above
> North America it would look to be in the west to someone in Palestine.
> And it would stay in that position all night.
>
> I don't think it was a geosynchronous satellite, but I don't think it
> was a solar mass either.
>
> If you want someone to go north to south, and you want the beacon to
> be an astronomical object, you'd have to put it in the southern
> hemisphere. So, after visiting the capitol, which direction did they
> head toward? The Mediteranean? Why did they then not end up in Spain?
>
> When they did find Bethlehem there's nothing to say the star didn't
> descent vertically and hover 300 feet over the town as they approached
> the town from the north. In fact, to be able to have them
> distinguish a little town from an area the size of Los Angeles that is
> exactly what would have been required. This was most likely not an
> astronomical event.
>
> So figuring out what the actual observation was, and then drawing an
> inference as to proximate cause, requires a complete reset in
> thinking. One has to think forensics, not theology. But every
> holiday season we are treated with the same dish of crapola. There is
> no natural explanation for the event.
>
> I remain "a cynic" ;)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 3:44 AM, John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com
> <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I'm curuious. What path would a star take? And how do you describe it?
>
> As far as who made it up, I guess you would have to blame the
> gospel writers. I am not sure they had the distinction back them
> between stars and planets, except for calling the stars that moved
> "wandering stars". Again the astronomical understanding of the day
> has to taken into acount.
>
> If you need a visual to help you remember this distinction
> forverer, nothing would be more effective than this priceless clip
> of the multi-talented Lee Marvin finding his senstive side in the
> old 60's movie Paint Your Wagon. :)
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnbiRDNaDeo
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* David Clounch <david.clounch@gmail.com
> <mailto:david.clounch@gmail.com>>
> *To:* John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com
> <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>>
> *Cc:* Allan Harvey <steamdoc@q.com <mailto:steamdoc@q.com>>;
> asa@calvin.edu <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
> *Sent:* Sat, November 21, 2009 1:48:10 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] Star of Bethlehem presentation?
>
> I have never believed it was a star. Just read the scriptures.
> It clearly doesn't describe the path a star would take. Who made
> up this star story anyway? Sort of sounds like St Nick getting
> turned into Santa Claus.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 6:53 PM, John Walley
> <john_walley@yahoo.com <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> Although not from a scientist's perspective, I looked into
> this a few years ago when he came to my church here. I think
> he is on to something.
>
> I was heavily in to RTB at the time and they have a competing
> theory but I still found his much more plausible. I think the
> weakness of his that most people seize on is that he dates the
> advent of the star (a planetary conjunction if I recall) a few
> years earlier than 4BC which is when it is supposed to be and
> I don't recall how he deals with that, but the rest of his
> presentation is very convincing. It relies heavily on
> assumptions of the astronomical and astrological knowledge and
> accepted understandings of the day but as most of here are
> non-literalists, that shouldn't be that much of an objection.
>
> I would definitely recommend you go and check it out. I think
> you will be impressed. A quick perusal of his site ahead of
> time would be wrothwhile as well.
>
> John
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Allan Harvey <steamdoc@q.com <mailto:steamdoc@q.com>>
> *To:* asa@calvin.edu <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
> *Sent:* Fri, November 20, 2009 7:42:11 PM
> *Subject:* [asa] Star of Bethlehem presentation?
>
> So is anybody here (particularly any astronomers) familiar
> with a guy named Rick Larson who has a supposedly
> scientific inspirational DVD presentation about the Star of
> Bethlehem. This appears to be his website:
> http://www.bethlehemstar.net/
>
> It will be shown (as an Adult Ed offering) at my church soon.
> Good, harmless, or something to steer people away from?
>
> Allan Harvey, ASA Member
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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>
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