Re: [asa] (Hitler) morals/ethics

Hi Bernie,

And here's Dan Carlin's own description of that podcast;

"Dan compares the way the modern world sees Adolf Hitler with the way history views Alexander the Great and wonders if the two men weren't more alike than different."

<http://dancarlin.com/dcosc/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=28&osCsid=b864a96e905aeb3eb5d2bb0d397a1a63>

That's *More alike than different* Bernie!

Sounds like even your sources don't support your moral evolution thesis.

Blessings,
Murray Hogg

Dehler, Bernie wrote:
> I got my info about Alexander the Great (compared to Hitler) from this
> podcast:
>
> http://www.learnoutloud.com/Catalog/History/World-History/Dan-Carlins-Hardcore-History-Podcast/22815#plink
>
>
>
>
> I can't confirm or deny it. */_But I would defend the idea that culture
> has evolved to a better place than ever._/* The ultimate will be a
> one-world government of sorts, the only way I think to eliminate nukes.
> We are seeing movement towards that with the EC and other joint groups.
> Obama is also making movement towards working with other national
> leaders as peers, unlike Bush.
>
>
>
> All the major blunders in history (Crusades, Stalin, Hitler, etc.) were
> probably necessary in order to learn from them (evolution of
> cultural/religious memes). Since the Holocaust, we say “never again.”
> But it does still happen (on smaller scales). Example: Rwanda. We
> haven’t learned 100% yet. It is just like a child falling off a bike in
> order to learn how to ride one. You have to fall in order to learn.
> But the end result is a better world, eventually, and gradually. Our
> only threat now is nukes. Our technology meme has evolved faster than
> our cultural/religious meme, so our cultural/religious meme may end up
> killing us all (the entire earth) via the technology meme.
>
>
>
> Obama is on top of that, trying to reconcile the USA with the world
> again. ;-)
>
>
>
> ...Bernie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Murray Hogg
>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 12:00 PM
>
> To: ASA
>
> Subject: Re: [asa] morals/ethics
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>
>> People say Hitler was the worst, but I heard Alexander the Great (long
> before Hitler) was much worse. Alexander killed villages for the vain
> glory of killing, while Hitler had, what he considered, a noble reason.
> The reason was wrong, but at least it was a better reason than just
> killing to show off or have fun or to prove what a big man he was.
>
>>
>
>
>
> As so often, Bernie, we have been over this ground and you insist on
> making totally spurious claims for no other reason than doing so
> advances your rather curious personal agenda.
>
>
>
> So I will AGAIN offer the challenge that I put LAST TIME: Can you please
> cite ONE instance in which Alexander behaved in the manner you here assert?
>
>
>
> The three obvious candidates are the destruction of Thebes, Tyre, and
> Gaza. But what you choose to ignore is that all three were destroyed
> because they broke the rules of ancient politics/warfare. Thebes
> rebelled against their recognized ruler, Tyre and Gaza chose to oppose
> Alexander under siege rather than submit. I don't condone Alexander's
> behaviour - but he certainly wasn't acting on a vain glorious whim.
>
>
>
> Now, I know you don't like actually research - so much easier to go on
> what "people say" or on what "I heard" - so let me lay it out for you.
> There are NO - repeat NO - instances on record of Alexander "[killing]
> villages for the vain glory of killing."
>
>
>
> So could you please refrain from claiming that Alexander acted for "vain
> glory".
>
>
>
> I'd also appreciate if you refrain from honouring Hitler's motives as
> "noble" - there IS no "noble" reason for genocide, Bernie - full stop.
>
>
>
> I realize that in all of this you want to promote the thesis that human
> morality has evolved past the point of needing a religious crutch. It's
> just unfortunate for you that the thesis is wrong and that the two
> greatest despots of history - Hitler and then Stalin - are such
> overwhelming evidence of the fact.
>
>
>
> But despite the need to explain away their behaviour in order to
> maintain your thesis of moral evolution, I really think you should
> consider just impression you give when you attempt to defend Hitler's
> motives as "noble". Frankly, NOTHING could be better guaranteed to
> convince me that, when it comes to morality, you just don't get it.
>
>
>
> Blessings,
>
> Murray
>
>
>
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Received on Wed Oct 21 14:06:53 2009