Re: [asa] Atheist finds God thru Behe's books....

Hi Bernie,

Hope you don't mind, but I usually can't resist spouting off when a list of
questions like these is posted (especially on a cold Friday night):

"1. The whole main thrust of the interview is wonder and awe at mystery.
Basically, it is "we don't know how Darwinian evolution did it or could do
it, therefore it must be intelligently designed (by God)." Why not instead
seek out more evolutionary mechanisms?"

Not knowing how Darwinian evolution did it does not logically lead to an
inference of intelligent design. And before seeking out "other evolutionary
mechanisms," why not explore ways known mechanisms can be enlisted in the
service of design?

"2. The amazing micromachines, DNA, proteins, etc. Yes it is awesome and
amazing. But so is the human body, and we thought that was also made
directly by God (not evolution) before the scientific evidence demonstrated
it (evolution, by pseudogene evidence) beyond a reasonable doubt."

The human body does not qualify as a machine; molecular machines are
machines. We can compare and contrast if you want.

"3. If design is guided, then be prepared to explain mass extinctions and
evolutionary dead-ends. Unless one believes in a recent worldwide flood and
recent Earth, why else did God make so many wonderful creatures long before
man even came on the scene to enjoy/observe them?"

Guided evolution does not entail that every aspect of evolution must be
micro-managed or predetermined. Consider instead the hypothesis that I have
previously shared with this list - Nudging Evolution.

If you prefer the theological angle (your second sentence), I will simply
note the theological argument I previously shared with this list - It's
because of us. It's all connected. Change our history (remove one of those
mass extinctions), and we no longer exist.

"3. Behe's whole objection seems to be against "Darwinian" mechanisms."

I would agree. But this is probably because there are many, like Dawkins,
who keep selling Darwinian mechanisms as the be-all and end-all of
evolution.

"4. Behe considers intelligent design as a hypothesis. I never saw this
hypothesis explained anywhere, but I admit I also haven't read his books.
From what I hear about the ID guys, it is basically "Darwinian evolution
can't explain it, therefore the only other possibility is intelligent design
(God)." (If someone is an ID supporter and can coherently state the
hypothesis CONCISELY, PLEASE do.)"

The original cells, designed and used to seed this planet, were shaped in
such a way as to influence and nudge subsequent evolution toward objectives.

"5. Is ID a science-stopper?"

The hypothesis of life's design is not a "science-stopper" if you consider
that it has allowed me to uncover several aspects of biotic reality that I
previously did not know.

-Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
To: "AmericanScientificAffiliation" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:26 AM
Subject: RE: [asa] Atheist finds God thru Behe's books....

>I saw the video. Some of my comments:
>
> 1. The whole main thrust of the interview is wonder and awe at mystery.
> Basically, it is "we don't know how Darwinian evolution did it or could do
> it, therefore it must be intelligently designed (by God)." Why not
> instead seek out more evolutionary mechanisms? That isn't a possibility
> for Behe- it is either Darwinian evolution (random mutation and natural
> selection) or God, apparently. Basically it is Paley's watchmaker
> analogy, only people forget that now that pseudogenes demonstrate human
> evolution from an apelike creature, we know that God did not make humans
> as humans make a watch.
>
> 2. The amazing micromachines, DNA, proteins, etc. Yes it is awesome and
> amazing. But so is the human body, and we thought that was also made
> directly by God (not evolution) before the scientific evidence
> demonstrated it (evolution, by pseudogene evidence) beyond a reasonable
> doubt.
>
> 3. If design is guided, then be prepared to explain mass extinctions and
> evolutionary dead-ends. Unless one believes in a recent worldwide flood
> and recent Earth, why else did God make so many wonderful creatures long
> before man even came on the scene to enjoy/observe them?
>
> 3. Behe's whole objection seems to be against "Darwinian" mechanisms.
>
> 4. Behe considers intelligent design as a hypothesis. I never saw this
> hypothesis explained anywhere, but I admit I also haven't read his books.
> From what I hear about the ID guys, it is basically "Darwinian evolution
> can't explain it, therefore the only other possibility is intelligent
> design (God)." (If someone is an ID supporter and can coherently state
> the hypothesis CONCISELY, PLEASE do.)
>
> 5. Is ID a science-stopper? Behe says no, it is like saying Einstein
> finding the speed of light as the maximum speed for anything is a science
> stopper, no need to look further for something faster. But Einstein's
> ideas are based on what can be measured, calculated, etc.; Behe's are
> based on "we don't know how, therefore ID."
>
> Behe's said his further research will be more about finding 'the edge of
> evolution,' what things exist and can't be explained by successive changes
> of evolution (finch beaks are easy to explain with Darwinian evolution,
> skunks shooting a bad odor are difficult to impossible).
>
> Summary: My main message to Behe would be: Instead of saying Darwinian
> Evolution can't explain it, instead look for more evolutionary mechanisms.
> Forget your obsession with Darwin!!!
>
> ...Bernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of John Walley
> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 7:03 PM
> To: AmericanScientificAffiliation
> Subject: [asa] Atheist finds God thru Behe's books....
>
> This video is amazing. http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/22075
>
>
> John McWhorter is a self avowed atheist and he even admits that he doesn't
> want to believe in God and here in this interview he reveals his innate
> childlike faith and affirms the obvious truth of the overwhelming evidence
> of design in nature and the need for some intelligence or guidance to be
> behind the mechanism of evolution. Also to make it more interesting, the
> atheist establishment blew a gasket over this interview and demanded that
> the interview be removed which it was, but then it was reposted. See the
> details on this controversy at
> http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/octoberweb-only/140-42.0.html?start=1.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
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Received on Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:22:55 -0400