Re: [asa] Re: (Santa?) [christians_in_science] Brilliant article by Dawkins

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>wrote:

> Murray said:
> "I think I missed the distinction between Ted's argument and yours. ;)"
>
> Here's the argument: Ted said:
> "God and Santa Claus are not close equivalents. Period."
>
> My point- they are EXACT equivalents if atheists are correct. If atheists
> are right, Jesus doesn't exist anymore than Zeus does. If Christians are
> right, of course, there are no similarities.
>
> I think you have it a bit wrong. Its more a matter of the enemies of Jesus
at the time proclaiming that he existed. Not the Christians. And then there
are the Roman historians too. A disinterested third party. So its not a
matter of Christians making wild claims that a fantasy Jesus existed in
history.

Another area where you have it wrong...
Atheism is not based on ex-religionists who changed their minds. If it is
based on that it is in real trouble - even more trouble than most of us
think. The charges you bring are just complaints atheists make. Excuses
really.

May I suggest you might want to sign up with a Muslim group and get in
*their* face about what a farce their prophet is (may peace be upon him).
Test your atheist courage?

I myself have very little patience with your questions. Perhaps the
distinguished ladies and gentlemen on the list relish answering apologetic
questions about Christianity. I myself am more interested in questions of
issues from within the Christian world view. There is enough diversity
there to choke a horse. If we had a forum then the moderator could assign
a category "apologetics for doubters of Christian claims". I'd never ever
look at that. It hasn't got to do with science.

As far as the personal pain of the death of your children, I really think
you owe all of us an explanation of how atheism solves that issue. I
previously suggested you take a look at RC Sproul's "Surprised by
Suffering", or Larry Crabb's "Finding God" or maybe even CS Lewis's "The
Problem With Pain" as Christian approaches to addressing the issue, but
you have ignored anything those writers have and instead accelerated
peppering list members with questions that challenge Christianity. (If the
answers of those writers aren't sufficient then why not tell us why.) This
complaining that atehism is superior doesn't strike me as something someone
who was hurting or seeking would actually do. If you have all that pain
and yet think atheism should prevail then the onus is upon you to show how
the problem of pain is answered with atheism. Not be lobbing grenades at
Christianity. It all seems a bit disingenuous - like it was an excuse.
All that church talk was obviously just some form of churchianity. Well,
there's lots of that going around these days. I prefer the honest approach
of Christopher Hitchens.
He is not into churchianity at all.

> ...Bernie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Murray Hogg
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:59 PM
> To: ASA
> Subject: Re: [asa] Re: (Santa?) [christians_in_science] Brilliant article
> by Dawkins
>
> Bernie,
>
> Dehler, Bernie wrote:
> > Ted said:
> > "God and Santa Claus are not close equivalents. Period."
> >
> > I think you are missing the point. Obviously you believe in God, so for
> you, they are totally different.
>
> And THEN;
>
> > Where the analogy breaks down is that many people really do believe in
> God. But no adult really believes in the E.B.
>
> I think I missed the distinction between Ted's argument and yours. ;)
>
> Blessing,
> Murray
>
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Received on Mon Aug 31 18:32:59 2009