Re: [asa] Re: (Santa?) [christians_in_science] Brilliant article by Dawkins

Bernie,

A loony is just slang for lunatic. Is there any evidence that an insane
person can generate a CV equivalent to Collins?

Once again, I will simply note that only a crackpot would have opposed the
nomination of Collins. There was and is no rational basis for such
opposition.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:03 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] Re: (Santa?) [christians_in_science] Brilliant article by
Dawkins

> Mike said:
> "If he is "looney", how is it that he is such an outstanding
> scientist?"
>
> As if scientists can't be loony! I terrific scientist can be someone who
> is super terrific in science and knows nothing, or everything wrong, in
> religion. Isn't that possible? You make it sound like an impossibility.
>
> Some of the most top people of their fields are extremely narrow-minded...
> maybe have to be to excel so well. By narrow minded, I mean they are
> experts in their field but know little of life in general or in other
> important areas of study.
>
> Although, for an NIH appointee, they'd look for someone with broad
> experience, and Collins certainly has that; and someone with broad
> experience is very unlikely to be loony. But if it was a President who
> was a religious (or anti-religious) zealot and was looking for another
> scientist to head-up the NIH who was a corresponding religious (or
> anti-religious) zealot, then you can have problems.
>
> ...Bernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nucacids [mailto:nucacids@wowway.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:48 PM
> To: Dehler, Bernie; asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: [asa] Re: (Santa?) [christians_in_science] Brilliant article
> by Dawkins
>
> "So- in the case of Dawkins, I think Dawkins should be more understanding
> since Christianity is believed by so many. But if the NIH appointee did
> really believe/promote the Easter Bunny, then I think we all would/should
> oppose him, regardless of his awesome scientific beliefs, because he is
> looney."
>
> Huh? For this example to have any meaning or relevance, you must also
> assume the appointee has the same CV as Collins. And if so, you have a
> huge
> problem. If he is "looney", how is it that he is such an outstanding
> scientist?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> To: <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:38 AM
> Subject: RE: [asa] Re: (Santa?) [christians_in_science] Brilliant article
> by
> Dawkins
>
>
>> Ted said:
>> "God and Santa Claus are not close equivalents. Period."
>>
>> I think you are missing the point. Obviously you believe in God, so for
>> you, they are totally different. But IF you were convinced like Dawkins
>> that God is non-existent, then God is on the same exact level as the
>> Easter Bunny (I didn't say Santa because before someone said they
>> believed
>> in a Santa, St. Nick- so I had to go more extreme with the E.B.).
>>
>> So Ted and others- if a prominent scientist, who was outstanding in his
>> field, and also believed in the Easter Bunny and had a website promoting
>> this belief in the E.B., would you object to his NIH appointment? It is
>> a
>> great question.
>>
>> 1. On one hand, who cares if the person believes in the E.B. because he
>> is
>> an outstanding scientist. (Pastor Murray wrote along these lines.)
>>
>> 2. On the other hand, is this person nuts or what???
>>
>> Where the analogy breaks down is that many people really do believe in
>> God. But no adult really believes in the E.B. If instead of E.B. I said
>> Zeus, that's not as controversial, as it is just another religion (and
>> our
>> society is traditionally very tolerant of other religious viewpoints).
>> The E.B. stands for pure fantasy/myth, as Dawkins is convinced that
>> Yahweh
>> is pure fantasy/myth.
>>
>> So- in the case of Dawkins, I think Dawkins should be more understanding
>> since Christianity is believed by so many. But if the NIH appointee did
>> really believe/promote the Easter Bunny, then I think we all would/should
>> oppose him, regardless of his awesome scientific beliefs, because he is
>> looney.
>>
>> ...Bernie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Ted Davis
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:26 PM
>> To: asa@calvin.edu; schwarzwald@gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [asa] Re: (Santa?) [christians_in_science] Brilliant article
>> by Dawkins
>>
>> This garbage about an approximate equivalence between believing in God
>> and
>> believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny is hardly original to
>> Dawkins -- who, apart from his idea of religion being a "meme" that we
>> "catch" like a virus, hasn't had an original thought about religion in
>> his
>> life.
>>
>> I could show examples of this from early in the 20th century, though I'd
>> have to dig through a bunch of notes to find them and I won't bother.
>> Around 1998, I had an exchange with Phil Johnson about methodological
>> naturalism, in which he also implicitly equated my belief in God with
>> belief in Santa Claus, since I wasn't persuaded by his assault on
>> naturalism.
>>
>> God and Santa Claus are not close equivalents. Period. That's what I
>> said to Johnson, and what I'd tell Dawkins -- as if he would be
>> listening.
>>
>> On the other hand, I think we can be confident that God is left-handed
>> (the fact that I am also is, I assure you, independent of this
>> conclusion)
>> and is almost certainly a fan of the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago Cubs.
>> (That's one reason why the Cubs didn't get to the World Series in one of
>> the recent years when the Saux did -- God wouldn't have known what to do.
>> Thus, in one memorable instance, God intervened through the glove of a
>> fan
>> near the foul line in Wrigley Field. This relates to theodicy as well,
>> but I'll leave that out for now.)
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>
>>
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Received on Sat Aug 29 08:50:35 2009