RE: [asa] (ancient theodicy, 'ancient theology') Deism, Apologetics, and Neglected Arguments

David said:
"Explain to us how this ancient theology is going to cause millions of Christians to lose their faith?"

Because Christians learn a certain popular apologetics, which state that Adam brought sin and death into the world. That is ancient theology and wrong. When they learn that death was in the world long before Adam, they will throw out everything else in Christianity too, because their apologetics teacher told them this was foundational to the faith.

...Bernie

________________________________
From: David Clounch [mailto:david.clounch@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 8:43 AM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] (ancient theodicy, 'ancient theology') Deism, Apologetics, and Neglected Arguments

Explain to us how this ancient theology is going to cause millions of Christians to lose their faith?

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com<mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>> wrote:

George Murphy said:

"In any case, theodicy is a fairly hot topic today - note debates not only in connection with evolution but also, e.g., the Indian Ocean tsunami (about which one nitwit Anglican bishop said in effect, "It was just plate tectonics. God had nothing to do with it." Theology at its best!) "

If only Jesus would have taught how to deal with things like the tsunami or 911... Wait, I think He did!

I think this passage is the same thing:

Luke 13

Repent or Perish

 1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them-do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

 6Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. 7So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, 'For three years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?'

 8" 'Sir,' the man replied, 'leave it alone for one more year, and I'll dig around it and fertilize it. 9If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.' "

People then knew about a terrible evil that Pilate had done. Jesus, how do you explain that? Or when the tower fell and killed so many innocents- everyone heard of it- how do you explain that?

I think 'ancient theology' explains it this way: these tragedies are due to sin.

Jesus modifies it with saying those people probably died because of their sin, but wait, you better take note and your use of a 'second chance' because you really aren't much better. I think that is Jesus' answer to theodicy, but theologians don't like it today.

Yes- I'm aware of the other passage (John 9:2) when Jesus was asked who was responsible for the man's blindness, the man or his parents, and Jesus said neither because it was a set-up for Him to do a miracle and prove His powers. I think that was a special case to the general theodicy (ancient theology) answer of sin being the reason behind sickness. I think Jesus' disciples where asking Jesus if the 'ancient theology' on theodicy applied to this guy, verse 2 : "His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?""

...Bernie

________________________________________

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu<mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu<mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu>] On Behalf Of George Murphy

Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 6:25 PM

To: Schwarzwald; asa@calvin.edu<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>

Subject: Re: [asa] Deism, Apologetics, and Neglected Arguments

1) I said, "I don't think the issue of theodicy is easily disentangled from questions about science & religion" & I stand by that - if you wish, with the qualification "today." That's not the same as claiming either that all questions of theodicy are due to science or that theodicy has always been as heavily influenced by science as it is today. In any case, theodicy is a fairly hot topic today - note debates not only in connection with evolution but also, e.g., the Indian Ocean tsunami (about which one nitwit Anglican bishop said in effect, "It was just plate tectonics. God had nothing to do with it." Theology at its best!) & when the topic does come up - with or without scientific connections, my approach has something to say & ID-related arguments don't.

<< other parts deleted to save space.>>

Shalom

George

http://home.roadrunner.com/~scitheologyglm<http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Escitheologyglm>

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Received on Mon Aug 24 11:40:17 2009