Re: [asa] Deism, Apologetics, and Neglected Arguments

I agree. Being a former RTB'er I was always irritated with these people who claimed to be informed in these areas but wouldn't take a stand on the obvious. I never had any use or respect for them. And like Bernie, I wanted to get to the bottom of it and know what the the truth was as well, regardless of where the chips fell.

Interestingly enough, I now feel the same way about RTB due to the pseudogene evidence. I have come to learn that many if not most of the church's popular teachers do not share this desire to know the truth, or at least have very different criteria for recognizing truth. And if they do know it they are often shy about sharing it, which doesn't seem to me to be the right strategy. If the church is wrong on something then so be it, they need to get it right. We need to take our own advice that we give the atheists, to follow the evidence wherever it leads.

John

----- Original Message ----
From: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
Cc: "asa@calvin.edu" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 11:30:28 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] Deism, Apologetics, and Neglected Arguments

Michael Roberts :
"I find this agnosticism about the age of the earth and the universe very
irritating."

I really wanted to learn what the right stand was, YEC, OEC, etc., so I was really excited to read Lee Strobel's book "Case for Creator."  Guess what- no stance!  I think in his case it is to sell as many books possible... don't want to upset the Christian audience.  It was irritating and mind-boggling to me how he couldn't address the issue in a book called "Case for Creator" !!!

...Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Roberts
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:43 PM
To: Ted Davis; Dave Wallace
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Deism, Apologetics, and Neglected Arguments

I find this agnosticism about the age of the earth and the universe very
irritating. More so than questioning evolution.

It's about as rational as being agnostic about the sphericity of the earth
and a few other things. When someone confesses to such agnosticism and
claims to be intellectual rational and scientific in his approach then my
tolerance is exceedingly taxed. It removes any credence from anything they
might say .

Finally I consider it to be intellectual posing and suspect that there are
less benign motives behind it. (SMC might say sinister)

Apart from being less than sensible and plain wrong we also need to ask what
effect this has on the good name of the Gospel and our Lord. I then have a
certain sympathy for PZMyers and others

It is infuriating to see all these shenanigans being played out over here
and the main churches haven't a clue how to deal with it.

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Davis" <TDavis@messiah.edu>
To: "Dave Wallace" <wmdavid.wallace@gmail.com>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Deism, Apologetics, and Neglected Arguments

I've read Cornelius Hunter's books and corresponded with him several times
(though not in the past couple of years), though I have not actually met
him.  If I am mistaken about his actual views on this, I hope someone will
invite him to send me a correction.  My overwhelming impression, however, is
that he does not accept human evolution.  I also sense that he is an
agnostic about the age of the earth and the universe.  To the best of my
knowledge, he doesn't state those views directly and openly, but I would be
very surprised if they do not lie just below the surface.

(I would not forward from Dr Hunter a simple statement that he has never
denied human evolution or the earth's great age, for I say as much here.  I
would however be pleased to forward a direct statement of his position on
either of these matters.)

Ted

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Received on Sat Aug 22 06:30:36 2009