Re: [asa] Youth leaving churches because of old earth

In defense of guys like Ham, I think many times the line in the sand is
drawn specifically over evolution in large part due to its recent
sociopolitical history and perceived effect on society and individuals.
Whether or not Darwin himself intended it to be the case, evolutionary
theory was touted as the basis/justification of a variety of repugnant
social agendas, from eugenics to social darwinism. Peter Singer and others
continue this line of thinking today in a variety of ways as well.

And take a look at the survey Ted linked to here. Notice that the concern
isn't just that accepting an old earth (and I would assume evolution by
extension) leads to young Christians leaving the church, but just what their
social lives and outlooks on the world become as well. So I think it's a big
mistake to think YECs and people like Ham are totally motivated by a simple
theological difference of opinion. The perceived spiritual repercussions and
effects of accepting evolution - even if the link is a contingent rather
than a necessary one - is also a motivating factor, and not so simple to
write off.

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 6:36 PM, David Clounch <david.clounch@gmail.com>wrote:

> Under the category "Meat Offered to Idols and Coated in Peanut Butter
> ===========================================
>
>
> Ken Ham also wrote a couple of years ago that ID is like the gay rights
> movement!
>
> The thing that strikes me is not these sorts of divisions. Rather its what
> all groups have in common. "Theism entangled with origins" is a
> characteristic of all Christian groups, no matter what their other
> differences. Why is there no appreciation on that from folks like Ham? It
> took soooooo long for this to sink in for me. Phil Lueck was telling me
> years ago about how all forms of origins are in a very generic sense
> "creationism" as far as the atheists are concerned. I didn't believe that
> at the time. I didn't know what he was talking abut. But its starting to
> make sense.
>
> I still think there can be non-theistic options on teleology. I'm not
> saying TE has to be wrong. It may turn out to be right. What bothers me is
> the intramural warfare between Christian groups. Its hard to tell if Ken
> Ham is just frightened or if he truly is arrogant. Ken Ham ought to defend
> all of Christianity first, and worry about his dirty laundry family
> disagreements with other Christians second. Unfortunately the writings of
> the apostle Paul have fallen on deaf ears with him.
> (and there's three fingers pointing back at all of us on this one too). ;)
> The TE/ID/OEC/YEC argument is a lot like meat offered to idols. Being
> picayune over that is what is turning people from Christianity - not any
> one particular idea about origins. This is what Chuck Swindoll calls
> "peanut butter Christians" in his book The Grace Awakening.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Ted Davis <TDavis@messiah.edu> wrote:
>
>> You read that subject line correctly. According to Ken Ham (surprise?),
>> this is the bottom line reason why young people are leaving churches in
>> droves. Amazing. But true -- that is, it's true that Ham thinks this is
>> the reason.
>>
>>
>> http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/aroundtheworld/2009/05/19/a-shock-to-the-church/
>>
>> I saw a copy of this book today, browsed it a bit, and that's the bottom
>> line for him.
>>
>> I guess the youth just don't leave those churches where they're taught the
>> YEC view. That's certainly what Ham wants you to think. He's not about to
>> admit that his rigidity on this issue is one of the reasons why people won't
>> give Christianity a second look -- not those on the inside, but those on the
>> outside looking in, who might otherwise go further with their spiritual
>> curiosity.
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>
>>
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>

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Received on Wed Aug 5 19:59:50 2009