Re: [asa] Miller and Myers on Harris

Told ya so:

"Do you see that happening? No. We aren't interested in what public officials do in their free time. They can have whatever legal hobby they want, they can favor whatever private rituals they want, they can associate with any non-dangerous group on their weekends that they want, whether it's going to church or gathering to watch football.

So what's different about Collins? He doesn't keep it to himself. He is openly and avidly evangelical, brags about adding religious messages to NHGRI announcements, and recently built a high-profile website that promotes evangelical Christianity." - PZ Myers

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/08/is_it_really_that_hard_to_unde.php

In other words, if Collins would just "shut up," everything would be okay. And what's amazingly ironic about this is that New Atheists constantly complain that their foes - the accomodationists - are telling them to "shut up." Here's the enlightened debate in a nutshell:

Myers to Collins: Shut up!

Accomodationist to Myers : Shut up!

Myers to accomodationist: How dare you tell me to shut up!

Such intellectual inconsistency can be explained.

"A few years ago, an Emory psychologist scanned the brains of self-described partisans. Partisans were able to notice the hypocritical statements of the opposing candidate but not the inconsistencies of their preferred candidate. Ideology, it was determined, showed effects similar to drug addiction."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/03/each_party_has_its_fanatics_97748.html

Mike

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Nucacids
  To: Dehler, Bernie ; asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Miller and Myers on Harris

  He would say no. The type of Christian he could support is one who keeps quiet about his faith (although Harris would not state it so bluntly).
  Remember, this is all politics. As such, Collins represents an existential threat to the NA movement by simply being both an outspoken Christian and a leading scientist. While many on this list enjoy scientific, theological, or philosophical arguments, for most people out in the real world, the mere fact that a leading scientist can be such an outspoken Christian is sufficient to completely discount the NA message. Only by getting people like Collins to keep his faith in the closet can the NAs more effectively equate science with atheism and pseudoscience with religion.

  Mike

  ----- Original Message -----
    From: Dehler, Bernie
    To: asa@calvin.edu
    Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:04 AM
    Subject: RE: [asa] Miller and Myers on Harris

    I would like to ask Sam Harris:
    "Do you think a prerequisite for the job is that one must be an atheist?"

    I would truly like to know his answer. And if he says 'no' then I'd ask what kind of Christian could he support, if not Collins?

    .Bernie

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Nucacids
    Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 7:53 AM
    To: asa@calvin.edu; cmekve@aol.com
    Subject: Re: [asa] Miller and Myers on Harris

    Cue response from the other Myers (PZ) in 5.4.3..

    Seriously, it's good to see people come to the defense of Collins. Harris's piece was purely political and an attempt to advance his Cause. Of course, since it's a NYT piece, Harris held back his more vitriolic opinions about Collins and instead played the role of concern troll. Nevertheless, Collins is the big fish here and he should ignore these NA attacks, which are nothing more than attention-seeking tactics.

    -Mike

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: cmekve@aol.com

      To: asa@calvin.edu

      Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:12 AM

      Subject: [asa] Miller and Myers on Harris

      Todays New York Times has a number of letters regarding Sam Harris's op-ed piece on Francis Collins. Two letters very supportive of Collins are from Ken Miller and David Myers (psychology prof at Hope College and I believe an ASA member). See http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/29/opinion/l29collins.html?_r=1&hpw

      Karl (asa member)
      ***********************
      Karl V. Evans
      cmekve@aol.com

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Received on Tue Aug 4 08:47:36 2009