Re: [asa] (testing evolution) TE/EC Response - ideology according to Terry

For starters, I think that your characterization of forensic science is
wrong. Forensic scientists do not simply "suppose a scenario." They
collect physical evidence from a scene and from it, using theories with some
degree of support, try to reconstruct events.

More broadly, the whole attempt to distinguish sharply "experimental" from
"historical," "forensic" &c science is wrong. Of course there are
differences but they are differences of degree, not clear-cut qualitative
distinctions.

Shalom
George
http://home.roadrunner.com/~scitheologyglm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexanian, Moorad" <alexanian@uncw.edu>
To: "Iain Strachan" <igd.strachan@gmail.com>; "Dehler, Bernie"
<bernie.dehler@intel.com>
Cc: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: [asa] (testing evolution) TE/EC Response - ideology according
to Terry

> Many of us have often said that evolutionary theory is more akin to
> forensic science than to experimental science. Recall that for all the
> data that was presented in the O.J. Simpson trial, the jury did reach the
> wrong verdict. This may also be the case for those investigating the past
> with regard to the question of origins. In forensic science, one supposes
> a scenario and attempts to prove it with extant physical data. People have
> to recognize the true nature of evolutionary theory and stop comparing it
> to theories that are used in the experimental sciences.
>
> Moorad
> ________________________________________
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of
> Iain Strachan [igd.strachan@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 1:43 PM
> To: Dehler, Bernie
> Cc: ASA
> Subject: Re: [asa] (testing evolution) TE/EC Response - ideology according
> to Terry
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Dehler, Bernie<bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> wrote:
>> Moorad said:
>> "For one, we can make all sorts of predictions in our theory of
>> gravitation and test them experimentally, witness Apollo 11, whereas the
>> same cannot be said of evolution."
>>
>> I think this is false. We can test evolutionary theory. A
>> macroevolutionary hypothesis is that man descended from an apelike
>> creature. Can it be disproven? Yes. Rather than running experiments,
>> instead data is collected. Genomic studies. Data falls in line with
>> evolutionary theory, and helps define/refine evolutionary theory. Data
>> also disproves creation of human by fiat or any kind of sudden,
>> non-descent (YEC/OEC idea of human creation).
>
>
> No it doesn't. Or at least your favoured chromosome fusion example
> doesn't. Now before you have a go at me about what I believe, I'll
> state right at the start that I believe in the reasonable hypothesis
> that apes and humans are descended from an ape-like ancestor that had
> 48 chromosomes. I imagine it's possible to date (using genetic drift)
> the time in history when the fusion occurred and that will verify it
> was before humans came along. But I believe in long time-scales;
> YEC's don't.
>
> However, as we have seen from Dennis's explanation and the quote from
> Darryl Falk, it seems the chromosome fusion is no big deal - it is a
> microevolutionary step in itself that doesn't change the genetic
> material. A heterozygous 47 chromosome (23+24) individual can mate
> perfectly well with a 48 or a 46, and meiotic drive ensures the 46
> individuals eventually take over the population.
>
> Hence, a YEC could well argue that man and apes were created
> separately, and the humans originally had 48 chromosomes.
>
> You'll need a lot more than evidence of a chromosome fusion to
> disprove that assertion.
>
> Iain
>
>
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Received on Tue Jul 21 13:56:12 2009