Re: [asa] Scientists, Religion, and Politics

Incidentally, with regards to the original poll: One complaint I'm hearing
is that Pew didn't poll scientists generally, but specifically members of
the AAAS. Which is apparently a rather politically active organization? I
honestly am not too familiar with them, but I thought those of us who read
the poll with interest may want to check up on this and decide for
themselves if it taints the poll in any way.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Freeman, Louise Margaret
<lfreeman@mbc.edu>wrote:

> Well put, Randy. My pastor was preaching on Romans 3:4 "God forbid: yea,
> let God be true, but every man a liar" last week and made an anti-evolution
> dig, asking "how often do we hear of man's scientific wisdom changing?" I
> sometimes wonder if pastors would understand this better if scientists
> called new theories "reformations?"
>
> __
> Louise M. Freeman, PhD
> Psychology Dept
> Mary Baldwin College
> Staunton, VA 24401
> 540-887-7326
> FAX 540-887-7121
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Randy Isaac" <randyisaac@comcast.net>
> To: <asa@calvin.edu>
> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:08:46 -0400
> Subject: Re: [asa] Scientists, Religion, and Politics
>
> That's fair enough, Don, as far as it goes, but I think we need a more
> complete picture to understand what this person was saying about
> conservatism in scientists. Indeed, breaking new ground and having
> innovative ideas is the essence of science. That's just the ticket to get in
> and play. Conservatism is not rejecting new ideas, it is the rigorous and
> strict adherence to the discipline of scientific methodology. In other
> words, coming up with new ideas isn't the hardest part, it's figuring out
> which new idea correctly explains the world around us and convincing the
> scientific community that this new idea is right. That takes a heap of
> hard-core conservatism--how you carefully prepared your samples according to
> time-tested methods, how you meticulously avoided all contamination, how you
> set up the experiment to differentiate all other possibilities, etc., etc.
> And until you convince the community that you did it all correctly, and they
> independently reproduce it all, it's just another firecracker in the air.
>
> Unfortunately, too often the innovative spirits who claim to have better
> knowledge than the broader scientific community--be it the young age of the
> earth, opposition to global warming, the shortcomings of evolution, or
> whatever--forget the core conservatism that makes science work. One must do
> the hard work of sound scientific methodology and convince the scientific
> community that it was done it correctly. Until then, those ideas are
> wannabe's. They may be right in the long run and, if so, the scientific
> community will figure it out sooner or later, but it is highly unlikely. No,
> claiming that the scientific community is biased and simply refuses to
> listen to these superior ideas doesn't wash. That's a copout and a refusal
> to do the really hard and thorough scientific work.
>
> Conservatism in science means having clear, core values and rigorous
> methodology for accepting new ideas into the scientific community.
>
> Randy
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> * From:* Don Winterstein <dfwinterstein@msn.com>
> *To:* asa <asa@calvin.edu>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:26 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] Scientists, Religion, and Politics
>
> My two cents' worth:
>
> The very nature of scientists' work is to challenge authority, the received
> "truth," and replace it with deductions from carefully measured data. One
> of a scientist's joys is proving an accepted theory incomplete or wrong.
>
> The root meaning of conservatism has to do with opposing change and
> preserving the ways of the past. Religions also impose from on high,
> declare truth on the basis of "authority."
>
> Hence a scientist who's immersed in his work and allows its methods to
> reach into the rest of his life will tend to challenge and oppose both
> standard versions of religious truth and conventional ways of living and
> governing.
>
> The fact that scientists as kids often don't fit in probably contributes to
> the phenomenon.
>
> Don
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Randy Isaac <randyisaac@comcast.net>
> *To:* asa@calvin.edu
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:01 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] Scientists, Religion, and Politics
>
> I recall that when I was in graduate school, oh so long ago, someone on the
>
> faculty made the comment that scientists tended to be more liberal in
> politics to counter their need to be so conservative in their science. I'm
> not sure if there's any evidence for a human being to need a balance of
> liberalism and conservatism in one's life, but it's an observation that
> stuck with me.
>
> Randy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ted Davis" < TDavis@messiah.edu>
> To: "asa" < asa@calvin.edu>; "Merv Bitikofer" < mrb22667@kansas.net>;
> "Nucacids" <nucacids@wowway.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [asa] Scientists, Religion, and Politics
>
>
> > Polls of this sort are never easy to interpret with much confidence.
> What
> > polls have shown consistently for many years is that academics (including
>
> > scientists) are far more "liberal" both politically and religiously than
> > the general American population. That is a generalization, obviously,
> and
> > any given academic or scientist can be a right-wing atheist, a left-wing
> > Christian, or any other combination you can imagine.
> >
> > The reasons for this are not really clear to me, but even 60 years ago it
>
> > was probably true that a large majority of leading physicists (confining
> > my comments to physicists, since they are based on what I know
> anecdotally
> > about the Manhattan Project) were very liberal politically and mainly
> > irreligious. Some, like Oppenheimer, had considered Communism very
> > seriously (his wife was the genuine article), and a few even worked
> > covertly for the Soviets (American versions of Klaus Fuchs), as
> documented
> > extensively by the new book, "Spies: The Rise and Fall of the KGB in
> > America," based mainly on Soviet archives that became available briefly
> > several years ago.
> >
> > I won't try even to guess at the reasons for this type of demographic,
> but
> > I think it would not be too hard to refute a trivial conclusion that
> > intelligence results in liberal political views and religious scepticism.
>
> > Plenty of corporate executives, attorneys, and other folk are also highly
>
> > intelligent, and the demographics among them are probably not similar to
> > those among academics and scientists. People in all walks of life tend
> to
> > encourage and empower people who think similarly to themselves, and
> > similarities of beliefs in these areas are surely part of that. As
> > someone from a top research university once said to me, "places like [the
>
> > university of X] don't hire people from places like Messiah."
> >
> > Ted
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
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> >
>
>
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Received on Thu Jul 16 00:01:20 2009