Re: [asa] The Criticism Begins

Jack,
Bang-on on your purpose and suggestions.

One small note on "little comment" when this was leaked in May. Some of the
more strident opponents of "accommodationalists" did react immediately: eg.
Larry Moran at Sandwalk<http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2009/05/francis-collins-and-national-institutes.html>

It's pretty obvious why running such a foundation [Biologos] is not
> compatible with a leadership role at the National Institutes of Health
> (NIH).
>
> That's what makes this report in *Scientific American* so disturbing [Former
> Human Genome Project leader Francis Collins likely next NIH director<http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=former-human-genome-project-leader-2009-05-26>
> ].
>

thanks,

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Jack Haas <haas.john@comcast.net> wrote:

> Greetings:
>
> My purpose for initiating this thread was not to nanoanalysis motives but
> out of a concern for the challenge
> to a Christian who would enter prominent public life in the 21st C. - an
> ASA member no less. There was little comment when
> it was leaked in May that Collins was being vetted for the position - a
> good first sign. However, as we have seen with
> the recent Supreme Court nominee, the digging and dirt manufacture begin
> in earnest with the official announcement.
>
> The last few days have seen affirmations by the American Chemical Society,
> etc and former colleagues
>
> http://health.usnews.com/blogs/heart-to-heart/2009/07/09/francis-collins-leader-for-the-21st-century-nih.html
> http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090709/full/news.2009.658.html
>
> http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2UwMWUyZjk2ZGU5N2ZkNDRmZDU0NzljYjQ3MTA3OTA=
> The articles uniformly note his Christian faith.
>
> Then there is the article in the WSJ: "Francis Collins as Culture War
> Statement"
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124718874130520769.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
> ,
> the RNS piece http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/11605811/, CNS's
>
> http://thecatholicspirit.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2143&Itemid=33
>
> Note also The National Center for Science Education view
> http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/554161/ and *Discover* blog:
>
> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/09/francis-collins-to-head-nih/
>
> The blog world today is "the" marketplace for rapid dissemination of
> opinion. Politicians pay attention. Those who feel that
> Collins is the man for the job should make their voice heard where it
> counts.
>
> Francis has set the bar high in his Christian stand. Lets support him.
>
> Jack Haas
>
> Schwarzwald wrote:
>
> While I am always in favor of honestly representing what a person has said
> - regardless of their status or conduct - some perspective is called for.
> Dawkins is more or less a cheerleader-clown for the modern atheist at this
> point, with "modern" adding up to "obnoxious and aggressively
> anti-theist/anti-religious". That a journalist may have taken some
> apparently ignorant quotes from him out of context is a shame, largely
> because it's not as if legitimate ones are in short supply from the man when
> it comes to religious topics.
>
> Again, that's not to defend any misrepresentation of him. But frankly, in
> perspective, I find it difficult to get too worked up about it - doubly so
> since it's not like journalists in general are stellar when it comes to this
> sort of thing, but ooooh, those CHRISTIAN journalists, why they're just
> something else.
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:28 AM, John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> I agree the Christian reaction of dishonest, defensive atheist bashing
>> needs to stop. I am greatly relieved to hear the description of the
>> Dawkins/Maher exchange didn't go down the way it was descibed below. I was
>> quite frankly shocked to hear that if the first place as it seemed over the
>> top even for Maher. In Dawkins' video interview with McGrath he was
>> suprisingly civil and gracious.
>>
>> I agree it only gives them ammunition.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Iain Strachan <igd.strachan@gmail.com>
>> To: mrb22667@kansas.net
>> Cc: asa <asa@calvin.edu>
>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 2:55:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [asa] The Criticism Begins
>>
>> If Mary Spiro is a Christian then it's all the more disappointing that
>> she should mis-represent Dawkins in this way. It would just give
>> atheists more ammunition against dishonest Christians.
>>
>> You can see the Dawkins/Maher interview for yourself as it's posted on
>> the original web-page:
>>
>>
>> http://www.examiner.com/x-6378-Baltimore-Science-News-Examiner~y2009m7d8-Is-Godfearing-genehunter-Francis-Collins-fit-to-run-NIH<http://www.examiner.com/x-6378-Baltimore-Science-News-Examiner%7Ey2009m7d8-Is-Godfearing-genehunter-Francis-Collins-fit-to-run-NIH>
>>
>> As I recall when I saw it, Dawkins had earlier said the Collins WAS a
>> "bright guy" and a very good scientist. The "he's not a bright guy"
>> was just part of humorous banter.
>>
>> This is not the first time someone has been totally misrepresented by
>> a journalist by selective use of quotes. In the UK Daily Telegraph
>> last year, the Archbishop of Canterbury was accused of not believing
>> in the Christmas story by very adroit use of ellipses, which omitted
>> the fact that he was saying the myths were the parts of the
>> traditional tale that were not in the Bible.
>>
>> Journalists are notorious for dishonesty in this way (selective
>> quoting), but I would have hoped for better from a Christian
>> journalist.
>>
>> Iain
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 2:20 AM, <mrb22667@kansas.net> wrote:
>> > I did a double-take, seeing the name Mary Spiro below. I know her
>> personally.
>> > She is a Christian, by the way; though its been a year or two since I've
>> seen
>> > her and I don't know what her current faith journey is like. I don't
>> think she
>> > was deliberately trying to be biased against Collins, though I agree
>> that the
>> > caption is sensationalistic and her quoting Dawkins like that (if the
>> interview
>> > was as you describe) was probably misleading. But it was more of an
>> > embarrassment to Dawkins, though to have such dismissively biased
>> inanities
>> > attributed to him --and unfortunately for him, quite believable
>> attributions at
>> > that. Look on the bright side: at least Christians who think
>> scientifically
>> > are getting some press-time that isn't mocking. (at least, I don't take
>> it to
>> > be, not from Mary, anyway.)
>> >
>> > --Merv
>> >
>> >
>> > Quoting Iain Strachan <igd.strachan@gmail.com>:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Jack Haas<haas.john@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> >> > Is God-fearing, gene-hunter Francis Collins fit to run NIH?
>> >> > the Bill Maher Show in April 2008. Dawkins likened Collins belief in
>> God
>> >> to
>> >> > a belief in an “imaginary friend” and referred to him as “not
>> a bright
>> >> guy.
>> >>
>> >> I just looked at the Dawkins/Maher interview, and this sentence is so
>> >> completely out of context that it's pretty much tantamount to a
>> >> concocted lie.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, the interview talked about "imaginary friends", but not in the
>> >> context of Collins. Dawkins was complimenting Maher on coining the
>> >> phrase.
>> >>
>> >> Secondly the context in which Dawkins said that Collins was "not a
>> >> bright guy" was just in response to a joke by Maher. Dawkins had said
>> >> that Collins certainly didn't believe in "the talking snake". To which
>> >> Maher responded jokingly "I've interviewed him and he totally does".
>> >> And Dawkins replied that in that case Collins had gone right down in
>> >> his estimation and that "he's not a
>> >> bright guy". It was perfectly clear from the context that neither of
>> >> them meant what they said literally - it was just a bit of joking.
>> >>
>> >> If there's one person who has gone right down in MY estimation, it's
>> >> Mary Spiro, the author of the article, and concocter of this piece of
>> >> gross misrepresentation.
>> >>
>> >> Iain
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
>> >> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -----------
>> Non timeo sed caveo
>> (\__/)
>> (='.'=)
>> (")_(") This is a bunny copy him into your signature so he can gain
>> world domination
>> -----------
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
>> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
>> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.9/2228 - Release Date: 07/09/09 18:07:00
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
Steve Martin (CSCA)
To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.