RE: [asa] fall of Satan logic questions

There is a problem with saying Jesus had pre-incarnate manifestations as an Angel because Christ is supposed to be almighty God, not an angel (which is a created being). They are two different orders of being. Jesus had a human and God nature- are we to throw in a third angelic nature also?

...Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Merv Bitikofer [mailto:mrb22667@kansas.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:06 AM
To: philtill@aol.com; asa; Dehler, Bernie
Subject: Re: [asa] fall of Satan logic questions

There is Daniel 10:13 where Michael is waylaid 21 days. Apparently
angels can get "tied up" in this way too, so to speak. So God's
messengers sometimes suffer delays just as human messengers. Try to
incorporate that into your theology!

--Merv

philtill@aol.com wrote:
> Another example of an angel with a sword (very similar to Numbers 22)
> is in the plague at the time of David. David was given a view of the
> angel doling out the plague, standing over Jerusalem holding a sword.
> In that case, we know that the result of this "sword" was an illness
> spread throughout a city, not a cut in an individual's flesh.
> Apparently the vision of a sword was an anthropomorphism so that David
> could understand the peril. I'd assume that most of what we read
> about angels is anthropomorphism so we can understand things that we
> otherwise couldn't. That's not to say it isn't real. I'd assume the
> reality is more than the anthropomorphism can communicate.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gordon brown <Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU>
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Sent: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 5:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [asa] fall of Satan logic questions (was:
> ID/Miracles/Design (Behe vs. Behe))
>
> For more on angels and swords see Numbers 22 beginning at verse 22. I
> am not prepared to present any conclusions from this.
>
> Gordon Brown (ASA member)
>
> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009, philtill@aol.com <mailto:philtill@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Angels can be "bound", so I have in my head an image more like
> wrestling than sword-fighting.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com
> <mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>>
> > Cc: ASA <asa@calvin.edu <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>>
> > Sent: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 3:47 pm
> > Subject: RE: [asa] fall of Satan logic questions (was:
> ID/Miracles/Design (Behe vs. Behe))
> >
>
> >
> > I was telling my kid (2nd grader) the other day about a war in
> heaven with good
> > vs. bad angels. Good angels kicked-out the bad ones. The bad ones,
> led by
> > Satan, wanted to take over.
> >
> > He had a good question I never thought about- can angels die?
> >
> > Theology says no- that's why hell was made for them. Forever tormented.
> >
> > But here we have a case of war with no death? What are they doing-
> just shoving
> > each other around? Do they have weapons, but these weapons can't
> kill another?
> > What's a war without death? Are they cutting off limbs? If Angels
> don't have
> > limbs (because they are spiritual and not material), are they just
> being hurt in
> > some way, but not completely dying?
> >
> > What does this have to do with ASA? It is a matter of trying to
> apply logic to
> > faith... does the Christian faith make sense about angel warfare and
> the fall of
> > Satan, using modern day logic?
> >
> > He asks a lot of interesting questions that somehow adults gloss
> over (including
> > myself). Maybe we jump too fast to the standard line "I don't know,
> but one day
> > we'll find out in heaven." Is that line a short-circuit for logic
> and truthful
> > understanding?
> >
> > ...Bernie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alexanian, Moorad [mailto:alexanian@uncw.edu
> <mailto:alexanian@uncw.edu?>]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:36 PM
> > To: Dehler, Bernie
> > Cc: ASA
> > Subject: RE: [asa] ID/Miracles/Design (Behe vs. Behe)
> >
> > Let us not forget the fall of Satan before that of man.
> >
> > Moorad
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu <mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu>
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> <mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu?>] On Behalf
> > Of Dehler, Bernie
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:32 PM
> > Cc: ASA
> > Subject: RE: [asa] ID/Miracles/Design (Behe vs. Behe)
> >
> > Dick said:
> > "If good, functioning, workable "designs" are due to God's
> handiwork, then
> > who or what is responsible for the flaws, defects and failures? Give
> > God all the responsibilty or none of it."
> >
> > Haminists (followers of Ken Ham and his interpretation) say that God
> made it all
> > good- but man's sin wrecked it. Before the fall, there were no
> mosquitos, or
> > they probably didn't drink blood back when they were first made,
> just like the
> > first lions, bears, etc. didn't eat other animals either (no animal
> death before
> > the fall, and all people were vegetarians until after the flood). So
> God gets
> > credit for good; man's sin is the reason for bad (or corruption of
> the good
> > design).
> >
> > ...Bernie
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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Received on Thu Apr 30 11:39:05 2009