RE: [asa] Natural Agents - Cause and Effect, Non-Natural Agents

I have not heard what most consider the meaning of "natural" to be. It seems to me this term is very equivocal. If we cannot agree on what the term "physical" means then we are all very much up the creek.

Moorad

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Ted Davis
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:59 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu; Jon Tandy; kbmill@ksu.edu; gregoryarago@yahoo.ca
Subject: RE: [asa] Natural Agents - Cause and Effect, Non-Natural Agents

Gregory,

I have been helping my daughter move all weekend, and with another daughter
finishing college soon I have virtually no time to spend on email unrelated
to my day job.

I will however refer you to my previous answer. Humans are "non-natural"
agents in the sense meant by your question. It's common for ID proponents
to stress the distinction between "natural" and "intelligent," and there is
plenty of justification for this. My comments earlier were neither
tongue-in-cheek nor soft-peddled. This is a very fair distinction to make,
and we do it all the time outside of science and sometimes within science.
If opponents of ID don't agree, then I do not take their objections
seriously and chalk them up to the politics of the issue.

At the same time, it's evident that when we are talking about design in the
universe, anyone and everyone knows that the relevant distinction is
"natural" vs "supernatural," since as Dembski has pointed out numerous
times, the specified complexity of natural objects must be the result of an
"unevolved intelligence" or "unembodied mind." (He has used both terms in
this context.) Anyone and everyone knows that this is God, but that simple
three-letter word is sometimes scrupulously avoided in the conversation.
Inferences to God go well beyond science, so ID opponents are well justified
to sense that supernaturalism is the elephant in the room. If ID proponents
don't agree, then I do not take their objections seriously and chalk them up
to the politics of the issue.

Is this a sufficient reply, for your purposes, Gregory? I have made every
effort to answer directly and to the point.

Ted

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Received on Mon Apr 20 10:38:15 2009