RE: [asa] Two questions... (genealogy gaps)

Hi James:

The pre-flood Sumerian King List which I find contemporary with the Genesis
5 patriarchs and the Legend of Adapa/Adamu are useful cross references that
afford a likely scenario of direct succession that should be valid for the
entire line of patriarchs.

According to Babylonian tradition the Garden of Eden was located near Eridu.
Eridu fits the biblical description framed by the named rivers and lands in
Genesis. If Adam lived at Eridu ca. 4800 BC we find that the Adamite
population at Eridu after just two kings ruled there lost the first war in
recorded history with the Sumerians from Badtabira. In the legend of Adapa,
he is also called the "Erechian." Erech was virtually across the street
from Enoch the city Cain built. Either as a result of the war or prior to
the war the Adamite population likely relocated to Erech with the Sethites
and Cainites living side by side.

Why else might we think that? For one thing we have a record of both lines
in Genesis. Had Cain just disappeared how would the writer of Genesis have
any knowledge of the Cainite descendants? The line of Cain was contributed
by a late descendant of Cain, who may possibly have been one of the wives
aboard the ark. The line of Cain is so different in style and format from
the line of Seth that it only makes sense to attribute these to different
authors, one a Cainite, the other a Sethite. Thus the same general location
for both families is likely - the city of Enoch was home to the Cainite clan
and Erech was home to the Sethites for at least the first six generations.

The Berossus list includes Megalorus which appears to be Greek for Mahalalel
showing another link between the SKL with the biblical patriarchs.
Megalaros has no counterpart on any of the Sumerian king lists.

Another reason to believe this scenario is the similarity in names in both
lines. There has to be some connection as the similarity is too close to be
serendipitous. Some authors have even suggested that the line of Cain is a
corrupted version of the line of Seth. (God forbid it could be the other
way round!)

Seth Cain

Enosh Enoch

Mahalalel Mehujael

Methuselah Methushael

Lamech Lamech.

Or attribute everything I've said to the ravings of a lunatic and go with
Lamoureux.

Dick Fischer, GPA president

Genesis Proclaimed Association

"Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"

www.genesisproclaimed.org

-----Original Message-----

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of James Patterson

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:45 AM

To: asa@calvin.edu

Subject: RE: [asa] Two questions... (genealogy gaps)

Sorry for the late reply to this...life keeps one busy.

I was referring mainly to Cain's lineage in regards to the development of

technologies such as metallurgy, stringed instruments, cattle domestication.

Enoch's wife is mentioned, but no family is mentioned for Irad, Mehujael, or

Methusael, and then we see that Lamech had two wives. This possibly

indicates that Irad, Mehujael, or Methusael were notable forefathers in this

lineage, but leaves open the possibility for others.

With regard to Seth's lineage, I am struck by several things, and actually

that's what brought me back to this thread to read (all of) your comments.

First, it seems to me that Gen 5 begins by linking Seth not only to Adam the

father of Seth, but directly to the original Adam. However I have to admit

that it isn't clear; why the ancient Jews couldn't make better use of their

limited vocabulary, I guess we will never know. Strong's #120 is used three

different ways in the first two verses! Nevertheless, it seems clear that

the author means that this lineage starts "from the beginning".

Second, I have to admit that the wording (I'm reading KJV) indicates the

years that X lived to the birth of Y, and how many years after, and how many

years total. Is there a modern translation of the Masoretic Text

interpretation of these lineages? (Also, which book of Lemoureux are you

referring to Bernie? Do you mean Lamoureux?) So those do seem to indicate

pretty straightforward lineages.

Third, in looking at the lineages from Adam to Noah, and from Seth to Abram,

I note that there are 10 in each. Seems rather symmetric. This symmetry

seems to me to perhaps be indicative of choosing the "top 10", and thus

indicative of not being a strict timeline.

I will be interested in reading Lemoureux/Lamoureux.

James

-----Original Message-----

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On

Behalf Of gordon brown

Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:55 PM

To: asa@calvin.edu

Subject: RE: [asa] Two questions... (genealogy gaps)

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009, Dehler, Bernie wrote:

> James Patterson: "The genealogies are well known to contain gaps."

>

> How can there be gaps in Genesis geneologies when it not only gives names,

but who begat who and how long each lived and how old they were when one was

begat? My opinion is that the history is nailed-down, but wrong; but it's

ok because the history is incidental to the theological message (RE:

Lemoureux).

>

> ...Bernie

>

There are many questions raised by the Biblical genealogies, and there are

numerous theories about them, none of which is obvious, and so I would say

that they are speculations.

Some genealogies have obvious gaps. For example, Matthew 1 skips three of

the kings of Judah. Also 14 generations from Abraham to David would

require very long generations if there are no gaps there. It has been

suggested that the OT and NT writers deliberately chose their genealogies

to have a predetermined number of generations.

In order for Dick Fischer to date the Flood at 2900 B.C. without positing

gaps in the genealogies, he would need to use the Septuagint rather than

the Masoretic text. Whereas in the MT's genealogy from Noah to Abraham

most individuals fathered their sons while in their 30s, in the LXX they

were in their 130s. Also Cainan is in the LXX but not in the MT. We also

note that in the Masoretic text these individuals died in roughly the

reverse order of their births.

Gordon Brown (ASA member)

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Received on Thu Feb 19 12:51:08 2009