RE: [asa] Fear and Loathing on this list

There are several things we need to recall in this connection. 1st, the Pharisees were generally laypeople, not priests. The leaders of the Jews at the time, at least officially, the priests, were generally the conservative Sadducees. 2d, Jesus himself was more aligned theologically with the Pharisees than with the Sadducees - e.g., his belief in the resurrection & his treatment of the prophets & writings on the same level as torah. According to Acts (23:6), Paul identified himself as a Pharisee even after he became a Christian.

Jesus could certainly be critical of individual Pharisees, & it's not unlikely that he did speak against some common tendencies of members of that party. But some of the anti-Pharisee polemic in the gospels, & especially Matthew, like comes from the later period of the composition of the gospel & reflects the situation of the early church in its controversies with the synagogue. In particular, after the destruction of Jerusalem the Sadducees disappeared & the Pharisees were in the process of becoming what we know today as rabbinic Judaism. Thus by the period it was more accurate than it was in Jesus' time to equate "Pharisees" and "Jews".

Shalom,
George

---- "Alexanian wrote:
> Christ never spoke against the Jews but He did speak against their leaders.
>
> Moorad
> ________________________________
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of David Opderbeck [dopderbeck@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:26 PM
> To: gmurphy10@neo.rr.com
> Cc: D. F. Siemens, Jr.; pngarrison@att.net; asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: [asa] Fear and Loathing on this list
>
> I've heard plenty of sermons drawn from Matt. 23, none of which had anything to do with neo-Naziism or with the Jewish people at all, but all of which had to do with hypocrisy in the Church. Indeed, in many respects Matt. 23 makes Preston's point, which is that we ought to spend more time critiquing ourselves than we do sniping at others.
>
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 5:07 PM, <gmurphy10@neo.rr.com<mailto:gmurphy10@neo.rr.com>> wrote:
> The Dominican who taught the coourse I took on Matthew in seminary commented when we got to this chapter, "You probably won't preach on Matthew 23 very much - unless you're a neo-Nazi.
>
> Shalom,
> George
>
> ---- "D. F. Siemens wrote:
> > Preston,
> > I note that you are comparing two groups with whom you meet and this
> > list. While I agree that being polite is relevant, I have to note that
> > there is a very different feel to face to face communication and the
> > semi-anonymity of e-mail and other computer postings. There have been
> > recent stories about people posting their nude photos on the Web, though
> > the have been none that I have seen of any of them walking about town. I
> > do recall a number of incidents of streaking, however.
> >
> > Additionally, I would call your attention to Matthew 23. I know of only
> > one set of sermons with that chapter as the text. Out of curiosity, do
> > any of the group know of a sermon based on that chapter? Additionally,
> > it's been a while since I have heard a sermon explicitly on sin or on
> > hell.
> > Dave (ASA)
> >
> > On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:58:34 -0600 Preston Garrison <pngarrison@att.net<mailto:pngarrison@att.net>>
> > writes:
> > > All,
> > >
> > > I have been lurking on this list more in recent weeks than I have
> > > for
> > > several years. As always there are brilliant people discussing deep
> > >
> > > topics. But there is something else that is consistent. There is a
> > > constant current of sarcasm, declarations of war against this group
> > >
> > > or that, expressions of fear and despair about what is supposedly
> > > befalling the church, and declarations from on high of what God
> > > thinks about this or that.
> > >
> > > In the same period I have been meeting with two separate groups of
> > > people locally. Both are composed of mixes of believers and atheists
> > >
> > > and agnostics, with a preponderance of unbelievers. In both of those
> > >
> > > groups, serious topics are discussed, scientific, political,
> > > religious and philosophical, but everyone is treated with mutual
> > > respect, there is humor, self-deprecation and even love. Even the
> > > servers who bring the coffee are known and time is taken for them by
> > >
> > > both believers and unbelievers.
> > >
> > > I recently recommended this list indirectly to a young man who is
> > > very intelligent and troubled about theological and scientific
> > > issues. I have to say at this point that I think I made a mistake in
> > >
> > > doing so. If he looks here, he will find much more education and
> > > brilliance than in the average church, but too much savagery for him
> > >
> > > to get much out of the intelligence.
> > >
> > > I just opened my Bible "randomly" to the following verse:
> > >
> > > If any man thinks himself religious, but does not bridle his tongue,
> > >
> > > but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is WORTHLESS. -
> > > James 1:26
> > >
> > > Enough. Stop it. Repent. Consider that that none of us is right
> > > about
> > > everything. It isn't all of you. It is the same subset over and over
> > >
> > > and over again. You know who you are. Ask our Lord and the people
> > > you
> > > are insulting to forgive you and start praying for your intellectual
> > >
> > > enemies. Don't respond to me. It isn't me you have offended.
> > >
> > > Preston Garrison
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu<mailto:majordomo@calvin.edu> with
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> > >
> > >
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Received on Mon Feb 16 23:42:46 2009