Re: [asa] LCMS YEC vs ID question/was Science as Christian vocation

From my brushes with ID which centred on the conference at Mequeon Univ
(LCMS) in 2000 where I got to know Menuge well and met other ID types, I
found that they avoided the issue of geological time. By doing so it is far
easier to look for intrusive active design or divine agency because any slow
development/evolution is ignored

That was the thrust of my chapter in Debating Design ed Dembski and Ruse and
the editor whose initials are not the same as mine did not like it.

Yeah, it should be "by" not "be".

I worshipped in an LCMS church and enjoyed the worship but I prefer a
liturgy.

I do know it is difficult for an LCMS to accept evolution and even OE at
times.

However many of us remain in a church we are not in total agreement with.

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wendee Holtcamp" <bohemian@wendeeholtcamp.com>
To: "'Michael Roberts'" <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>;
<gmurphy10@neo.rr.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:14 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] LCMS YEC vs ID question/was Science as Christian vocation

George had made a reference to LCMS in a recent message, I think, so that's
why I asked. I attend a LCMS church but though I agree with everything else
in their theology I obviously disagree with any YEC views and I also don't
agree with ID. But I love everything else about my church! And agree with
their doctrinal stances otherwise.

I'm not sure what you mean by " I have always considered time to be far more
important than design, agency or anything else " can you explain? I laso
didn't understand the 2nd part of that sentence "as if we ignore time and
are thus YE be our silence anything goes" - do you mean by YE=Young Earth?
Did you mean "by" rather than "be" our silence?

Thanks for the clarification!
Wendee
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     Wendee Holtcamp, M.S. Wildlife Ecology
    Freelance Writer * Photographer * Bohemian
          http://www.wendeeholtcamp.com
     http://bohemianadventures.blogspot.com
~~6-wk Online Writing Course Starts Feb 21, 2009~~
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
'Better to light a candle than curse the darkness'

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Roberts [mailto:michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:42 PM
To: Wendee Holtcamp; gmurphy10@neo.rr.com; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] LCMS YEC vs ID question/was Science as Christian vocation

George LCMS!!!!!!!!!! I chuckle

On LCMS and ID Angus Menuge has probably a part to play in the emphasis on
ID with his various books. However I feel that he tries to discuss ID,
divine agency without taking time into consideration. However a good LCMS
person must be YEC.

I have always considered time to be far more important than design, agency
or anything else as if we ignore time and are thus YE be our silence
anything goes. That to me is the weakness of much recent ID and particularly
Angus's

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wendee Holtcamp" <bohemian@wendeeholtcamp.com>
To: <gmurphy10@neo.rr.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:37 PM
Subject: [asa] LCMS YEC vs ID question/was Science as Christian vocation

George - are you Lutheran/Missouri Synod? Do you know at what time they
changed their stance from purely YEC to what seems to be an embracing of ID
in their latest online resources? I remember researching it years back and
seeing only YEC info but now they've also added in ID verbiage. This is for
my book that I'm writing, and I thought maybe someone who followed it a bit
more closely over the past decade might know?

Best,
Wendee
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     Wendee Holtcamp, M.S. Wildlife Ecology
    Freelance Writer * Photographer * Bohemian
          http://www.wendeeholtcamp.com
     http://bohemianadventures.blogspot.com
~~6-wk Online Writing Course Starts Feb 21, 2009~~
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
'Better to light a candle than curse the darkness'

Ted is right that Lutherans don't seem to have given a great deal of
attention to science-theology issues in the perios in question. There were
exceptions - Theodore Graebner of the Missouri Synod & Byron Nelson (I
believe the current ID Paul Nelson's grandfather) of the old American
Lutheran Church. Both were strongly anti-evolution. I don't know as much
about the Pennsylvania variety of Lutherans at that period as I do of the
more conservative midwestern ones. (Francis Pieper, the chief theologian of
Missouri, argued for - though he didn't insist upon - geocentrism in his
1917 _Christliche Dogmatik_. He did insist upon 6 day creation.) I do have
one book from the 1920s that deals mostly with cosmological questions by an
eastern Lutheran but can't recall name or title now - I'll let you know when
I'm home.

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Received on Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:00:33 -0000