Re: [asa] Two questions...

James,

Psalm 19:1-4 is a very interesting choice. You are aware, I hope, that the
word which in your translation is made to be "skies" comes from "raqia".
This is better translated "firmament" or "vault" (See Gen 1 in TNIV) and
refers to the hard dome of the sky holding up the heavenly oceans. This is
basic ANE cosmology and can be seen in Egyptian, Babylonian and Sumerian
creation accounts, and yet I assume when you read skies you think
"atmosphere" - which is certainly not what the Psalmist had in mind.

You said " If what we discover about the world and how he created it and us
is true to God, then it should (and does, IMO) agree with his Word." If you
are going to do this, and agree with what concordism demands, then
ultimately you would have to agree with their cosmology as well. If in fact
you don't think the sky is a hard dome keeping up a heavenly ocean (and that
NASA has indeed sent space ships out which have not run into any such
firmament) then you have already taken the first steps in rejecting the need
for concordism.

Finally, I think we need to really investigate what we mean when we say "His
Word is True". What do you mean by "True"? A poem, a parable, and a
historical study can all be true in their various ways, but we would not
expect them all to meet the same standards.

Always,
Bethany

On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 11:40 AM, James Patterson
<james000777@bellsouth.net>wrote:

> Well, I agree with you about YEC...I am not one. I am most closely aligned
> with OEC theology. I must disagree with you on concordism, however. Let's
> look at the Bible:
> ---
> Psalm 19:1-4
> The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his
> hands.
> Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display
> knowledge.
> There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard.
> Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the
> world.
>
> Romans 1:20
> For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal
> power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what
> has been made, so that men are without excuse.
> ---
> God is Truth. His Word is True. He created the Heavens and the Earth. If
> what we discover about the world and how he created it and us is true to
> God, then it should (and does, IMO) agree with his Word.
>
> That doesn't mean we understand everything, or agree on everything, but it
> does mean (to me) that our interpretations of the Bible and of nature
> should
> agree.
>
> JP
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Douglas Hayworth
> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 8:56 AM
> To: James Patterson
> Cc: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: [asa] Two questions...
>
> On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 10:24 PM, James Patterson
> <james000777@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > I don't think it's the science issues that are the most troublesome, at
> > least for me. It's the lack of foundational doctrines that are, I think,
> > critical to many mainstream Christian churches. That would be concordism,
> > and inerrancy/infallibility of the Word of God.
>
> Actually, I think that concordism and YEC are problematic and faulty
> primarily on a theological, doctrinal and hermeneutical grounds. When
> we actually treat God's Word with the respect it deserves as his
> revelation of his purposes and calling for humankind throughout
> history, it becomes obvious (to me, anyhow) that concordism and YEC
> detract and demean it.
>
> In pre-science days there was no such thing as concordism or
> scientific YEC because there was nothing that had to be made
> concordant. The theological message was what mattered most. In other
> words, the advent of science created a new issue for us to work
> through, but it is the concordists and YECs who went down the wrong
> path by making scripture "say" things that it was never meant to mean.
>
> Doug Hayworth
> Rockford, IL
>
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Received on Sat Feb 7 15:19:55 2009