RE: [asa] Taggle? (was: What Darwin Didn't Know - Dr. Fuz Rana)

RTB's private Taggle forum is still present, and was never yanked - not sure
where that information came from.

The topic of CD will of course continue to get plenty of discussion-time,
but has been tabled for the moment within RTB. Bob Stuart asked for a
tabling of the discussion on this topic until a formal conference can be
held addressing this. This conference was scheduled, but then had to be
rescheduled due to a conflict with someone's schedule. Fuz is going to be
leading the discussion - and I did forward him the concerns raised here.

John - if you were still part of RTB, you would have gotten an invitation to
join the RTB Taggle forum. I don't think you are, and so I don't think you
can. However, you may still be able to eventually join the public forum as
an individual, if ASA decides not to join as a group. I think Dan McCarthy
is still working on this. He hasn't decided whether to allow individuals to
join the public Taggle area.

The beauty of Taggle is that it has a public forum where anyone (any
Christian) can discuss things, while you can carry on protected discussions
in the private area. The original intent was for groups (churches or
organizations) to join, and then members of that church could use the
private section for within-church business or discussions, and the public
section for "cross-pollination". There's places (both public and private)
for uploading all kinds of media, as well as hosting your own blogs too.

I'm sure he would enjoy hearing your thoughts and/or ideas on this. It is a
work in progress. I think he can be reached at admin@taggleinc.com.

JP

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of John Walley
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 6:10 PM
To: 'ASA'; James Patterson
Subject: Re: [asa] Taggle? (was: What Darwin Didn't Know - Dr. Fuz Rana)

Too late. RTB just yanked their Taggle forum and also put the kibosh on any
discussion of TE or CD on their forum. It has been getting a little to close
for comfort for them and they can't let that genie get out of the bottle.

Thanks

John

--- On Fri, 1/30/09, James Patterson <james000777@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> From: James Patterson <james000777@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: [asa] Taggle? (was: What Darwin Didn't Know - Dr. Fuz Rana)
> To: "'ASA'" <asa@calvin.edu>
> Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 7:08 AM
> James Patterson here. RTB member. Yes, I'm still here!
>
> I see the same problem here that I see in RTB's
> listserve...a group of
> like-minded people discussing things. You won't get any
> replies or
> discussion from the RTB camp since I am the only active
> member here, and all
> I can say is that you'd have to ask Fuz. However, I
> think most of the
> references, and answers are in "Who Was Adam?".
> But that's not the point of
> this reply.
>
> If you would actually like to discuss issues like this (as
> well as anything
> else), with other groups (not just RTB) I suggest that you
> consider Taggle.
> I believe Randy's gotten an invitation from Daniel
> McCarthy. It is a place
> where you can discuss topics in forums, share ideas, share
> documents,
> videos, photos, audio files, write blogs, etc. You can do
> all of this in the
> public forum, open to all churches and organizations, and
> you can do this in
> your own private area, dedicated and open only to ASA.
>
> The forum in the private section would serve much like the
> ASA listserve
> does now, and the forum in the public section would serve
> as a place for
> "cross-pollination".
>
> Currently, it's just getting started, and so
> there's only two churches, and
> RTB. I think it has great potential to serve as a meeting
> place for
> Christians with a desire to learn more, not just about
> their own beliefs,
> but about the beliefs of others. In that same vein, it is a
> great place to
> share what you believe, test your beliefs against others in
> a common forum,
> and search for the truth. Make that...Truth.
>
> The link: http://taggleinc.com
>
> God bless, JP
>
> PS: Still reading "Perspectives on an Evolving
> Creation" Excellent book,
> well written and edited, and I have tons of margin notes to
> discuss, once I
> finish. I've been distracted several times by other
> projects. Currently
> reading Bob Russell's chapter - very intriguing. :)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Murray Hogg
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 5:21 PM
> To: ASA
> Subject: Re: [asa] Fw: What Darwin Didn't Know article
> by Dr. Fuz Rana
>
> Oh, I quite agree - if it WAS a mistake (as I suggest it
> was) to use
> "mitochondrial Eve" as a descriptive due to its
> potential for confusion then
> somebody like Rana - who KNOWS the science and KNOWS the
> biblical story - is
> doubly culpable for propagating rather than rectifying the
> confusion.
>
> I was thinking, rather, in terms of broad public perception
> and that the
> reason such comments have an audience is because somebody
> adopted a label
> which is just a bit too evocative!
>
> It might, additionally, simply reinforce my remarks about
> conservative
> Christians not having categories for certain types of
> statement - after all,
> those who have some appreciation of non-literal statements
> would hardly fall
> into the trap of assuming that "mitochondrial
> Eve" means "the first truly
> human woman from whom we are all directly descended".
>
> Have you noticed that, when it comes to the origins debate,
> scientists can't
> win....
>
> Blessings,
> Murray
>
> David Opderbeck wrote:
> > True, except that Rana is a microbiologist, has read
> the relevant
> > literature, and knows better.
> >
> > David W. Opderbeck
> > Associate Professor of Law
> > Seton Hall University Law School
> > Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Murray Hogg
> <muzhogg@netspace.net.au
> > <mailto:muzhogg@netspace.net.au>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > I was reflecting about this overnight and it
> struck me that
> > scientists probably only have themeselves to blame
> when they choose
> > to engage in fanciful comments about
> "mitochondrial Eve".
> > Personally, I'd have thought the potential for
> misunderstanding and
> > misrepresentation would be obvious.
> >
> > It's probably one for filing under "What
> on earth were they thinking!"
> >
> > Blessings,
> > Murray.
> >
> > David Opderbeck wrote:
> >
> > It's truly disappointing and frustrating
> that Rana continues to
> > popularize the notion that mitochondrial DNA
> studies "attest[]
> > to" what Rana would offer as the Biblical
> notion of Adam and
> > Eve. He knows better. He knows that mDNA
> studies don't
> > establish a single Adam or Eve who were
> contemporary with each
> > other, he knows that both mitchondrial Eve
> certainly lived among
> > a population of many other breeding pairs, and
> he knows of
> > Ayala's "Myth of Mitochondrial
> Eve" paper and other similar
> > population genetics studies. Any popular
> article or talk that
> > makes such claims and doesn't address the
> foregoing is simply
> > misleading.
> > David W. Opderbeck
> > Associate Professor of Law
> > Seton Hall University Law School
> > Gibbons Institute of Law, Science &
> Technology
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:13 PM, D. F.
> Siemens, Jr.
> > <dfsiemensjr@juno.com
> <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>
> > <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com
> <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>>>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:07:01 -0800 (PST)
> John Walley
> > <john_walley@yahoo.com
> <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>
> > <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com
> <mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com>>>
> > writes:
> > >
> > > FYI..
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Fuz Rana has a very good
> article in the latest
> Charisma
> > > > magazine entitled What Darwin
> Didn't
> > > > Know. Here is the link to it.
> > > >
> > > >
> http://charismamag.com/issues/index.php/cm209
> > > >
> > There are two matters that I didn't
> note having comments. The
> > first:
> > "But some of the most recent advances
> related to hominid-human
> > relationships raise questions about
> evolution's validity. In
> 1997
> > fragments of Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA
> from a 40,000- to
> > 100,000-year-old skeleton were found in
> West Germany. When
> > scientists
> > compared them with the corresponding
> fragment of human DNA, the
> > researchers discovered that Neanderthals
> made no contribution
> > to human
> > genetics."
> >
> > What does a lack of contribution from
> contemporaries have to
> > do with
> > evolution? The claim is that Homo sapiens,
> H.
> > neanderthalensis and
> > now H.
> > floresiensis (?) all share ancestry, not
> that one is the
> > ancestor of the
> > others. Since H.s. and H.n. had overlapping
> ranges, I suggest
> > that some
> > modern Europeans could still have
> Neanderthal inheritance.
> > Mitochondrial
> > DNA is inherited only though the mother.
> So, if a H.s. male
> > fathered a
> > son with a H.n. female, and the son
> fathered offspring with a
> > H.s.
> > female, there would be no evidence in the
> mitochondria of the
> > H.n.
> > genetics, though the chromosomal
> inheritence might be retained.
> >
> > The second:
> > "Scientific consensus confirms that
> humanity originated about
> > 100,000
> > years ago in east Africa near the location
> ascribed to the
> > Garden of
> > Eden."
> >
> > I'll not use the vulgar but appropriate
> term to describe the
> > claim that
> > East Africa is the Near East.
> > Dave (ASA)
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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Received on Sun Feb 1 17:52:41 2009