Re: [asa] QM, Mind, and Multiverse

My quick response here is that human beings, including scientists, will
latch onto anything that advances their naive desires. If they can get an
inhabitable world with a quasi-infinity of worlds, they'll adopt a
mutiverse system. If they can get sentience from panpsychism, so be it.
It works equally well with pantheism, whether Spinoza's or Hindu, or with
animism. Note that we are very competent at deluding ourselves.

As to the subjective, I recall Augustine's argument that the skeptic
could not deny that he, the skeptic, existed. Descartes put it
positively, but added a vast amount of Medieval gobbledegook. This means
that solipsism cannot be disproved because no one can prove his
self-awareness to others. That no one who attempts to communicate
believes in solipsism does not change the matter, although a totally
unresponsive individual may be a solipsist.

In contrast, other subjective beliefs may always be interpreted as purely
psychological, wishful thinking, delusional. This is why Christianity is
built on faith or trust, not on knowledge strictly construed.
Dave (ASA)

On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:31:03 -0500 philtill@aol.com writes:
I also took notice of Linde's statements. I have long thought that
Atheism is very close to theism, nowadays, but ironically this has
developed in such a way that Atheists are not aware it.

Think of this: Atheism has become comfortable appealing to things
outside the bubble of our universe to explain what we see inside it.
Also, some like Linde are comfortable talking of consciousness as a thing
that cannot emerge from non-consciousness, but must simply exist. If
only these two things are put together: if consciousness can exist
within the bubble of this universe, then why can't it exist in whatever
that Greater thing is outside our universe? If so, then we couldn't
avoid naming it God. Also, Goedel's theorem might suggest that truth
can't be as simple as a countable set of axioms, and so there is no a
priori reason to rule out the organization of a consciousness in whatever
is the ultimate source of physical law.

Phil

Original Message-----
From: Schwarzwald <schwarzwald@gmail.com>
To: asa@calvin.edu
Sent: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 6:45 am
Subject: [asa] QM, Mind, and Multiverse

I was re-reading the Discover article "Science's Alternative to an
Intelligent Creator: The Multiverse". It's an article which has gained
some decent attention among Christians as of late for the obvious reason
- the 'fine-tuning' aspects of the universe that seem to suggest either
an intelligent creator, or some kind of amazing, possibly infinite
universe-creating principle. (Perhaps both? There's an avenue that would
be fun to explore.)

I know that topic has gotten some discussion on this very list, but
there's one part in particular I wanted to highlight - and a part which I
notice has seemingly gone unmentioned in every place I've followed the
discussion. From the article:

"As for Linde, he is especially interested in the mystery of
consciousness and has speculated that consciousness may be a fundamental
component of the universe, much like space and time. He wonders whether
the physical universe, its laws, and conscious observers might form an
integrated whole. A complete description of reality, he says, could
require all three of those components, which he posits emerged
simultaneously. "Without someone observing the universe," he says, "the
universe is actually dead.""

Now, Linde is a big proponent for the multiverse. He's certainly not God-
or religion- biased in any way I can tell (Wikipedia lists him as an
atheist, but Wikipedia is also Wikipedia, so take that with a grain of
salt.) At the same time, here is Linde conceding that consciousness 'may
be a fundamental component of the universe', such that if you have no
consciousness, you have no universe.

Dinesh D'Souza recently wrote an article arguing how science in general
can no longer be looked to as a compelling argument for atheism, because
a number of developments have turned against what was for so long the
standard atheist view of the world. Perhaps this is one more bit of
evidence that D'Souza is correct, or at least on to something?

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Received on Thu Nov 27 15:50:27 2008