Manichees & Pelagians (was Re: [asa] Bloesch on the Fall ...)

Dick -

2 extremes have to be avoided. I already noted one, the idea that original sin is so serious that we are no longer God's creatures. That approximates the ancient heresy of Manichaeanism, that there is an evil creator as well as a good one. The more popular heresy is that we're sinners but just need a little help or a good example to get right with God. That's usually called Pelagianism, though Pelagius was somewhat more careful than that. We have more than a "propensity for disobedience" - Eph.2:3-5 speaks of people prior to faith in Christ as "children of wrath" and "dead in trespasses and sins. Historically, Lutherans & Reformed suspected RCs of being at least semi-Pelagian, & they've returned the favor by thinking that Luther & Calvin had Manichaean tendencies. Fortunately ecumenical dialogue has gotten past that.

Shalom
George
http://home.neo.rr.com/scitheologyglm
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Dick Fischer
  To: 'George Murphy'
  Cc: ASA
  Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:14 AM
  Subject: RE: [asa] Bloesch on the Fall (was "Adam and the Fall")

  Hi George;

  I'm going to have to stop attending Baptist churches. Perhaps a "propensity for disobedience" would sound better.

  Dick Fischer, GPA president

  Genesis Proclaimed Association

  "Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"

  www.genesisproclaimed.org

  -----Original Message-----
  From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of George Murphy
  Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:46 PM
  To: Dick Fischer; ASA
  Subject: Re: [asa] Bloesch on the Fall (was "Adam and the Fall")

  Comment here just on one sentence of Dick's below. I don't mean to pick on him but the phrase"sin nature" has been used by others here & should be avoided. If we're going to use the idea of humans having a distinctive "human nature" at all, the idea that this is a "sin nature" would mean that before regeneration people are no longer in essence good creations of God. That is why the 1st article of the Formula of Concord rejected such language. (Augustine said that even in the devil is in essence good.)

  Shalom
  George
  http://home.neo.rr.com/scitheologyglm

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Dick Fischer

    To: ASA

    Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:01 PM

    Subject: Re: [asa] Bloesch on the Fall (was "Adam and the Fall")

    ..............

    Man has a sin nature and so far as I can tell has always had it. asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.

    .............

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Received on Mon Nov 17 17:04:55 2008