Re: [asa] CS Lewis and going-off the deep-end

I don't think Lewis is making those distinctions; he's trying to make an
analogy with biological evolution.

If all you mean is that conversion is an "evolutionary" process in the sense
that it is gradual and happens over time, I think that is a fair statement,
at least if we are understanding "coversion" to mean the entire ordro
salutis.

But the analogy still breaks down because Christian conversion is obviously
teleological, while natural evolution is not (at least from a human
perspective). Moreover, Christian conversion doesn't happen in accordance
with natural laws -- it specifically requires divine intervention.

So, it seems to me a limited analogy. The classical notion of a
"pilgrimage" or the Pauline idea of running a race seem more apt.

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>wrote:

> Hi David-
>
>
>
> Evolution is different in different realms. For example, there is the sex
> act in some biological evolution, but not all. For chemical evolution,
> there is no sex. Same with planetary evolution. DNA mutation plays a part
> in biological evolution, but no part in planetary or star evolution.
> Therefore, there's nothing wrong with the next step of evolution, getting
> born again, being by choice. Evolution also creates new things, for
> example, the ability to hear, see, talk, think, etc. The new thing in this
> case is the introduction of the spiritual man, and the way it is received.
>
>
>
> I'm still looking at to why this chapter can't be taken literally. Any
> other ideas? Does this seem foolish, or am I picking-up on something new?
>
>
>
> …Bernie
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* David Opderbeck [mailto:dopderbeck@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:14 PM
> *To:* Dehler, Bernie
> *Cc:* asa@calvin.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] CS Lewis and going-off the deep-end
>
>
>
>
> That conversion is analogous to biological evolution. Biological evolution
> happens "naturally." Conversion doesn't.
>
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> wrote:
>
> I guess a clarifying question of mine would be "What does Lewis say in Ch.
> 11 that is figurative and can't be literal?"
>
>
>
> …Bernie
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* David Opderbeck [mailto:dopderbeck@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2008 12:01 PM
> *To:* Dehler, Bernie
> *Cc:* asa@calvin.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] CS Lewis and going-off the deep-end
>
>
>
>
> It's an interesting analogy. But read it carefully -- nowhere is Lewis
> suggesting that we simply evolve into new creations. His focus is on
> transformation, of the sort that only comes through submission to Christ.
> He uses the metaphor of evolution to suggest that this process, as it
> occurs in Christians here on earth, isn't always obvious and often is
> gradual. But without that crucial aspect of transformation by Christ and in
> Christ, you're really starting to talk about a different gospel, I think.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> One thing I wanted to share and see what feedback I get.
>
>
>
> I kind of feel like I might be going-off the deep-end. The reason why is
> because of how I understand C.S. Lewis in "Mere Christianity" (online here:
> http://lib.ru/LEWISCL/mere_engl.txt )
>
>
>
> In his last chapter, 11, "The New Men," he offers evolution as a metaphor
> for gospel transformation. Here's why I think I might be going-off the
> deep-end: I'm starting to see what he wrote as literal instead of
> figurative. It seems so profound and touching, I'm wondering if what he
> says about evolution isn't really just an analogy, but literally true.
>
>
>
> By evolution, I mean "total evolution" not just biological evolution.
> Total evolution explains how everything evolves- from the big-bang, to
> elements, to stars, planets, etc. Maybe the work of Christ is the latest
> injection according to total evolution? He talks about "the next step" in
> evolution- the ability to be born-again.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I feel strange taking something that was offered as an analogy to
> be thinking of it quite literally.
>
>
>
> I'll likely be giving a presentation of this chapter 11 at one of the
> meetings I hold, so I would appreciate feedback on this chapter.
>
>
>
> …Bernie
>
>
>
>
>

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Received on Fri Nov 14 13:01:16 2008