[asa] Re: Quantum physics, measurement problems, other implications?

Actually, on reflection, I'd like to put this question another way.

I know it comes as no surprise to anyone on this list that science education
in general, and evolution in particular, seems to be a never-ending issue of
concern. TEs and irreligious scientists both tend to stress the importance
of evolution not only being known by Christians, but accepted by them. And
not just 'Christians who are involved, however directly or indirectly, with
such topics' but all mature Christians, anywhere - often with the point
stressed that even accepting evolution while having skepticism about some
areas may well be unacceptable as well. The justification for this attitude
tends to be 'Well, the evidence strongly supports evolution, to deny it is
to deny an important and major piece of information about ourselves and our
history, and ignorance of the issue may open Christians up to unnecessary
faith-stressing confrontations when they do learn it from a hostile source'.

Let me say right now that I agree with this to a point. I believe in
evolution - I'm even open to a 'naturalistic' scenario for the origin of
life, and so on. I do have some points of skepticism, or points where I
think historical science inquiries simply end and areas of uncertainty
begin. But I can certainly get behind the idea that when such a fundamental,
personal, and important detail about our existence and history is uncovered,
it becomes important to make people aware of.

Here's the problem I have. Why should this attitude hold for evolution, and
evolution alone - while practically zero attention is paid to the
strangeness of the quantum world?

Mind you, I'm not talking about co-opting QM for some Christian evangelizing
purpose. I'm talking about the bare fact of communicating to people that the
mechanistic, classical Newtonian world seems to break down on the quantum
level. What's more, this breakdown seems to be intimately personal for us
humans, related to observations and, as a result, observers.

It's not as if the weirdness of the QM world hasn't been pointed out at the
higher levels. It was controversial from the start, and quite a lot of
effort has gone into 'testing' it - and 'testing' often meant 'trying to
prove that what seemed to be going on, actually wasn't.' But QM doesn't get
anywhere near the amount of discussion evolution does, inside or outside of
the Christian community. Books have been written (Quantum Enigma, The
Mindful Universe, Quantum Mechanics & Reality Interpretations) along with
articles in Nature (The Mental Universe) by prominent, serious physicists
who not only point this out, but lament that so few people are aware that
there's an "issue" here at all, or that if they are, that they strive to
downplay it for fear of anyone 'misunderstanding' (Quantum Enigma stresses
this point in particular.)

So, that would be one question I'd address to this list. If our concern
about evolution is truly for the reasons we say it is - if it's truly for
the reasons many non-Christians say it is - then why does the quantum
question get next to no attention, next to no discussion? Why is our concern
for 'science and truth' seemingly so myopic?

Note that I'm including myself in this question. I've discussed and debated
evolution many, many times with Christians and non-Christians alike. Common
descent, RM&NS, neutral drift, epigenetics, teleology - I've hit and
initiated topic after topic. The number of times I've even brought up the
subject of quantum mechanics, measurement problems, twin slit experiment
results, delayed choice quantum eraser, local reality, and otherwise? Few
and far between. And frankly, I think I need to justify that if I want to
seriously consider myself as wanting people to be aware of science, and of
scientific fact in general.

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Schwarzwald <schwarzwald@gmail.com> wrote:

> Heya all. Just idly curious of this, as reading up on it has occupied my
> time as of late. Does anyone have much interest/fascination with questions
> of quantum measurement problems? I'm asking this in as broad a way as
> possible, not limiting it to 'insofar as it relates to Christianity' or even
> insofar as it relates to brain operation, etc. It seems like a downright
> fascinating and perplexing area of natural science, and I've now read about
> a number of physicists and scientists who lament how the issue is ignored or
> purposefully downplayed, because they have philosophical qualms about what
> the apparent results of delayed choice quantum eraser and similar
> experiments have to say about the material world.
>
> As I said, it's kind of a broad and open-ended question, but I'm curious
> what others on this list think about the subject.
>

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Received on Thu Nov 13 04:39:40 2008