Re: [asa] Adam and the Fall

At a glance, I'd make the same call as David - there's a vast gulf between
recognizing that Adam as typically envisioned by some/many did not exist,
and that no Adam existed, full stop. Just as there's a gulf between
asserting that creation did not take place in a handful of twenty-four hour
days several thousand years ago, and that there's 'no physical
correspondence to reality' within Genesis.

I think the mistake is to regard uncertainty with how to definitely regard
those books of Genesis as a problem that needs to be solved immediately,
such that we have to have an immediate, definitive, and binding answer to
the question. I'd see a better option as realizing that there are a variety
of possible ways to understand those books in a way that do have 'physical
correspondence to reality' (in fact, I think the justification for doing so
is strong, even while being faithful to science), and recognizing that there
will be some amount of uncertainty with whatever way we decide. Recognizing
our limitations is no crime here.

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:43 AM, David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>wrote:

> Ian, this has been an issue I've struggled with as well. I agree with you
> that Denis' work is excellent on many fronts. The notion of accommodation
> for which he argues isn't original with him, but it's becoming more
> prevalant even in some more conservative circles -- see, e.g., Daniel
> Harlow's article in the Winter 2008 Christian Scholar's Review (
> http://www.csreview.org/XXXVII2/harlow/)
>
> However, respectfully to Denis' position, I think he's too quick to dismiss
> any notion of a historical Adam. I'd commend to anyone to consider the
> alternatives proposed by Denis Alexander in his new book "Creation or
> Evolution: Do We Have to Choose" (some excerpts in a CiS talk here:
> http://www.asa3.org/ASA/meetings/edinburgh2007/papers/Edinburgh_Alexander_text.pdf)
> and in Daniel Harrell's new book "Nature's Witness: How Evolution Can
> Inspire Faith" and in Loren and Deb Haarsma's book "Origins: A Reformed
> Look at Creation, Design and Evolution."
>
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Ian Johnston <i-johnston@bethel.edu>wrote:
>
>> The recent thread on Adam's Ancestors (David Livingstone's new book) has
>> stimulated me to encourage more of us to grapple with Denis Lamoureux's
>> scholarship (Evolutionary Creation, Wipf and Stock Publishers, 2008, ISBN
>> 9781556355813) as it bears on the biblical Adam.
>> Denis (who has been a regular participant at ASA Annual Meetings for more
>> than a decade, and an occasional contributor on this listserve) seems to me
>> to have made significant break-throughs in arguing against a strictly
>> literalist reading of the first 11 chapters of Genesis. Many of us have
>> been convinced that the science of the Bible represents ancient frames of
>> reference, and therefore we would not expect the scriptures to make any
>> significant contribution to current scientific notions about cosmology,
>> geology or even biology. But ancient science also encompasses ancient
>> explanations of human origins and extends to explanations of human mortality
>> (especially in the context of biological death).
>>
>> Denis's careful scholarship brings him to the following conclusions (on
>> p319 of Evolutionary Creation):
>>
>> The Historicity of Adam
>>
>> The Bible presents overwhelming evidence that the inspired writers
>> understood the physical world from an ancient phenomenological perspective.
>> In fact, there is not one verse that reveals a scientific truth prior to its
>> discovery by modern science. Scripture features an ancient science of the
>> structure, operation, and origin of nature. In particular, the de novo
>> creation of humanity has profound implications for the traditional Christian
>> belief in the historicity of Adam.
>>
>> First, Adam never actually existed. Genesis 1 and 2 present the de novo
>> creation of the heavens, earth, plants, and animals. This is an ancient
>> origins science with no correspondence to physical reality. Consistency
>> within these first biblical chapters demands that this is also the case with
>> the origin of humans. The quick and complete creation of Adam is identical
>> to the de novo creation of the firmament-neither happened in history.
>> Second, Adam never actually sinned. In fact, it is impossible for him to
>> have sinned because he never existed. Consequently, sin did not enter the
>> world on account of Adam. Third, Adam was never actually judged by God to
>> suffer and die. Again, he lacks existence, and as a result the ability to
>> sin, so he was never condemned for his transgression. Thus, suffering and
>> death are not divine judgments upon Adam, every other human after him, and
>> the entire creation. There never was a cosmic fall.
>>
>> The historicity of Adam is built on an ancient conception of origins. The
>> traditional belief in an actual causal connection between his sin and the
>> origin of physical death is false. Adam is an incidental vessel that
>> delivers inerrant foundations of the Christian faith to remind us: we are
>> created in the Image of God, we are sinful, and God judges us for our sins.
>> Though Adam never existed, he is the prototype of the human spiritual
>> condition. In order to understand our existence, we must see ourselves in
>> him - Adam is you and me.
>>
>>
>> I hesitate to quote these conclusions without comment on how Denis gets to
>> them ... knowing that the biblical literalists in the Christian community
>> will certainly find these ideas to be difficult to swallow and even
>> inflammatory. But I am convinced that Denis has something substantive to
>> say to us as we struggle to faithfully respond to God's revelations of
>> himself through the book of God's word and the book of God's works.
>>
>> Ian Johnston
>> --
>> Ian S. Johnston, Ph.D.
>> Professor of Biological Sciences
>> College of Arts and Sciences
>> Bethel University, St Paul, MN 55112
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>

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Received on Wed Nov 12 10:57:37 2008