[asa] Atheism and multiverse ... ???

Hi all-

 I just saw this funny quote:

* Atheism:
The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self-replicating bits which then became dinosaurs.
It got me thinking. Does it really come down to an atheist having to think that, ultimately, something came from nothing? Even with a multiverse idea- doesn't there have to be a first one??? Maybe this is a logical proof that there is a spiritual world, as a material world must be birthed by a spiritual world because a material world can't give birth to itself...???

...Bernie

________________________________
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Schwarzwald
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 2:28 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Dawkins is at it again

It's odd to argue that whether or not it's torture depends on it being actually true or false - I'm sure anyone here could think of plenty of bare facts one could tell children and have it be torture nevertheless, especially depending on how it's presented. And again, Singer provides an interesting tripping point with Dawkins. I think the most fire-and-brimstone, 'God is watching everything you do and will punish you severely whenever you misbehave' teaching of hell (which I'd consider both a gross distortion of thought on the matter, and quite possibly abuse) would rank equal with definitively teaching them a Peter Singerian view of life and children, where one's prime worth is their consciousness, and the lives of infants (and older, quite possibly) are at the mercy of their parents or the state. And that's just one of many examples.

That before realizing that all these things can't matter in Dawkins' worldview. There's no 'good' and 'evil', no matter how much he likes to use those terms. There's nothing but personal preferences, whether popular or not. No culpability either (not even in a compatiblist free will manner).

All the same, it's amusing to imagine Dawkins & company assembling an index of banned books. Can't have people's imaginations running too wild, can we - it's a threat to free thinking.

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com<mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>> wrote:

If Dawkins was right, then he would have a very good point. If there was no God heaven, or hell, then it could be mental torture on kids. However, if Dawkins is wrong, then he'll burn in hell for it... likely... but that would be God's call.

...Bernie

________________________________

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu<mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu<mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu>] On Behalf Of Nucacids
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:17 PM

To: asa@calvin.edu<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
Subject: [asa] Dawkins is at it again

I've long said that the New Atheist movement is the mirror image of an fundamentalist, religious movement. Thus, it should surprise anyone that Richard Dawkins is now attacking.....Harry Potter:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3255972/Harry-Potter-fails-to-cast-spell-over-Professor-Richard-Dawkins.html

What's of more concern is that Dawkins still seems obsessed with peddling his pseudoscientific bigotry:

""It is evil to describe a child as a Muslim child or a Christian child. I think labelling children is child abuse and I think there is a very heavy issue, for example, about teaching about hell and torturing their minds with hell.

"It's a form of child abuse, even worse than physical child abuse."

So in the ethical world of Dawkins, it is better to break a child's jaw than to expose the child to Catholic teaching about hell. That's just sick.

- Mike Gene

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Received on Fri Nov 7 15:57:34 2008