Re: [asa] Dawkins is at it again

Hi Murray,

“It occurs to me, however, that the very fact that I haven't much experience
of this sort of thing DESPITE living within a religious community of the
sort Dawkins seeks to critique really serves to rob Dawkins' objection of it
strength. I know, for a bona fide fact, that none of the children of
families in my congregation lie awake at night worrying about hell-fire and
damnation! So, again, Dawkins is really dealing with straw men of the most
improbable variety and if there IS such a thing as religious "child abuse"
of the sort Dawkins espouses, I've yet to personally see an instance.”

That’s a fantastic point. The criticism itself sounds more like the
stereotype of an outsider than resonating with people who actually move in a
religious community. If this really was a problem, we wouldn’t need someone
like Dawkins to convince people it was a problem in 2008 as part of a
socio-political movement; millions of tortured souls would have long ago
made it obvious and social scientists would have discovered and studied it.
The child abuse message is the modern day equivalent of the ancient stories
about Christians engaged in cannibalism.

There is another angle to it also. I was raised a secular boy. As such, I
experienced another form of “torture” – the black abyss of nihilism and the
attempt to look away with hedonism. In the end, there is a sense of peace
that comes with Christianity that cannot be matched with anything Dawkins et
al. come up with.

- Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Murray Hogg" <muzhogg@netspace.net.au>
To: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Dawkins is at it again

> Hi Mike,
>
> Thanks for taking my remarks in the spirit intended. :)
>
> I've not personally had any experience with people tortured by the idea of
> hell but I imagine that if I did, then your remarks about deeper issues
> from the past would prove to be quite in order. Certainly, one would have
> to have REASONS (not necessarily of the rational sort) to fear such
> condemnation - whether that be a "real" cause like actual moral badness in
> oneself (although I wonder whether truly bad people worry much about
> hell?) or a "conceptual" problem like either very poor self-image OR a
> very poor understanding of divine grace (and therefore of divine
> judgment). In part I'm thinking here that people who DO really see
> themselves as sinners, probably have little cause to fear even if they do
> sense their inadequacy more than the "good" (cf. Parable of the
> tax-collector and the Pharisee - Luke 18:9-14).
>
> It occurs to me, however, that the very fact that I haven't much
> experience of this sort of thing DESPITE living within a religious
> community of the sort Dawkins seeks to critique really serves to rob
> Dawkins' objection of it strength. I know, for a bona fide fact, that none
> of the children of families in my congregation lie awake at night worrying
> about hell-fire and damnation! So, again, Dawkins is really dealing with
> straw men of the most improbable variety and if there IS such a thing as
> religious "child abuse" of the sort Dawkins espouses, I've yet to
> personally see an instance.
>
> It also occurred to me, being a bit preoccupied with thoughts of Martin
> Luther in the context of the discussion on the sacraments, that in Luther
> we have a prime example of a soul tortured by thoughts of an angry God
> BUT, unfortunately for Dawkins, found it was the Gospel of Christ and not
> Atheism which brought peace to his soul. So, again, Dawkins polemical
> program leads him to overlook the obvious: the vast majority of Christians
> see their faith as the SOLUTION to the "problem" of human weakness /
> divine judgment. Any fear of condemnation is thus eliminated rather than
> bolstered by Christian religious belief (cf. Heb 2:14,15).
>
> Blessings,
> Murray
>
>

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Received on Fri Nov 7 00:00:09 2008