Re: sacraments as means of grace (was Re: [asa] Pregnancy & Communio)

What "most protestants" believe depends on, among other things, who one
includes as "protestant." But to get to the issue itself, yes, I think that
those who reject the idea that the sacraments are means of grace, however
they're categorized, are wrong. For whatever it's worth, the term
"protestant" was first used of those who later would be called "Lutheran"
because of their protest against imperial/Roman policy at the Diet of Speyer
in 1529. The confession of the same group at the Diet of Augsburg the next
year says, in its 9th article on baptism that "grace is offered through it,"
and in Article 13 that the sacraments are instituted not only as outward
signs but "in order thereby to awaken and strengthen our faith."

This discussion may get interdicted soon as being off-topic but I've always
felt that the sacraments, precisely because of their material (and even
technological) character are relevant to theology-science dialogue.

Shalom
George
http://home.neo.rr.com/scitheologyglm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
To: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: sacraments as means of grace (was Re: [asa] Pregnancy &
Communio)

> Pastor Murray said: " ...could you expand a little on your thinking?"
>
> I think George was saying it was a "mistake" to not think that "the
> sacraments are a means of grace." My point- I think most Protestants
> reject the notion of "the sacraments are a means of grace." The link I
> gave showed the protestant denominations. The largest by far is Southern
> Baptist, who take communion as symbolic and not as a "means of grace."
> Therefore, I think it is a mistake to say it is a mistake, as George did,
> unless one thinks that most Protestants are wrong.
>
> ...Bernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Murray Hogg
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:39 PM
> To: ASA
> Subject: sacraments as means of grace (was Re: [asa] Pregnancy & Communio)
>
> Hi Bernie,
>
> I'm not clear on the significance of the link you posted in the below -
> could you expand a little on your thinking?
>
> Thanks,
> Murray Hogg
> Pastor, East Camberwell Baptist Church, Victoria, Australia
> Post-Grad Student (MTh), Australian College of Theology
>
> Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>> George said: "The idea that there is some conflict between justification
>> by faith and belief that the sacraments are means of grace is a basic
>> error that afflicts many of the protestants you mention."
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't the majority of Protestants reject "the sacraments are means of
>> grace?" Looks that way to me, from this source:
>>
>> http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#families
>>
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't say "they have a basic error" but more likely accept it as a
>> genuine disagreement within the Christian faith.
>>
>>
>>
>> ...Bernie
>
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Received on Wed Nov 5 20:44:01 2008