Re: [asa] RE: Does Creator Imply Designer?

Hi Jon,

You wrote:
"> But the argument itself (God is a God of truth, not
> deceptive) on its own
> doesn't prove either side. Either you have God
> creating an old-looking
> earth and telling us that it's young (the YEC
> "appearance of age" doctrine),
> or you have God telling us "Here is an account of
> the creation of the
> universe" when it really isn't (the "appearance of
> narrative" position, i.e.
> the Biblical account is either myth, or
> phenomenological, or ANE cosmology,
> or accommodation, or pre-scientific errors of human
> authors, etc.)."

I don't follow...are you trying to say that the
Bible's use of different methodologies for expressing
truth (i.e., the ones you list above, such as myth)
necessarily equate to God deceiving us, simply because
its not straightforward/obvious to us in this day and
age? If so, I couldn't disagree more. We are
culturally and historically removed from the Genesis
stories by 5,000 years--I think its more than expected
that we would have trouble grasping its proper genre
and interpretation. I don't think its "appearance of
narrative", or whatever else you might like to call
it, makes God deceptive, I think it shows rather, our
ignorance and/or our entirely different
cultural/historical mindset.

In Christ,
Christine (ASA member)
 
--- Jon Tandy <tandyland@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Rich Blinne wrote:
> "Some parts of God's nature are mysterious and
> others are not. For example,
> God is a God of truth and there is no shadow of
> turning for Him. Presenting
> appearances that are deceptive are out of character
> with God as described in
> Scripture. When I dabbled with YEC and OEC that part
> of creationism and ID
> always bugged me. Because of that cognitive
> dissonance when I dropped all
> of the above my faith remained relatively unscathed.
> God wasn't false nor
> Scripture, just the fallible interpretations thereof
> by people."
>
>
> This argument is a two-edged sword. I just read a
> typical YEC article,
> where it was heavily emphasized that since God is a
> God of truth, and since
> he has given us scripture which tells us about
> creation, therefore Theistic
> Evolution and other scientific ideas that oppose
> this "fact" undermine God's
> truthfulness. Your argument is a good rebuttal, by
> pointing out the YEC
> position also requires God to be deceptive in
> creating false natural history
> that has the appearance of great age.
>
> But the argument itself (God is a God of truth, not
> deceptive) on its own
> doesn't prove either side. Either you have God
> creating an old-looking
> earth and telling us that it's young (the YEC
> "appearance of age" doctrine),
> or you have God telling us "Here is an account of
> the creation of the
> universe" when it really isn't (the "appearance of
> narrative" position, i.e.
> the Biblical account is either myth, or
> phenomenological, or ANE cosmology,
> or accommodation, or pre-scientific errors of human
> authors, etc.).
>
> YEC has the more persuasive argument among
> Christians, when they argue for
> holding up "God's word" as more true than the
> changing theories of human
> scientists. But in the end it's the weaker
> argument, because it takes a
> human assumption about scripture (that it must equal
> literal and perfectly
> accurate science/history) and elevates it to the
> place of scripture itself,
> in contradiction to solid evidence to the contrary.
>
>
>
> Jon Tandy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Rich Blinne
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:17 AM
> To: Alexanian, Moorad
> Cc: Don Nield; ASA
> Subject: Re: Does Creator Imply Designer? was Re:
> [asa] Stars May Not Be So
> Fine Tuned After All
> Some parts of God's nature are mysterious and others
> are not. For example,
> God is a God of truth and there is no shadow of
> turning for Him. Presenting
> appearances that are deceptive are out of character
> with God as described in
> Scripture. When I dabbled with YEC and OEC
> that part of creationism and ID always bugged me.
> Because of that
> cognitive dissonance when I dropped all of the above
> my faith remained
> relatively unscathed. God wasn't false nor
> Scripture, just the fallible
> interpretations thereof by people.
>
> Rich Blinne
> Member ASA
>
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Received on Fri Aug 1 10:56:36 2008