RE: [asa] Creationism Conference (Book 1 and 2)

George Cooper said:
"Further, to claim, as Ken Ham does in his video, that to not accept the
day as 24 hours will cause the "collapse of Christianity" is yet another
disquieting facet to their marketing."

I think Ken Ham is revealing his mind- according to his religious
beliefs, his "Christianity" would be demolished if evolution were
true... which is true.

I think one thing to push with YEC's like Ken Ham is the notion of God's
two books- God's Word and God's works. They seem to reject and ignore
God's works (or at least greatly minimize God's works), and think that
nature is subordinate to God's word (as if "general revelation" is
subordinate to "special revelation"). I think book books should be
considered on the same basis- without one being superior to the other...
or maybe "God's works" being superior (in some cases) since it is
provable (in some cases where it is, such as knowing that the Earth
revolves around the Sun rather than vice-versa).

If "God's Word" (Book 1) says that man was made uniquely from dust of
the Earth, but "God's works" (Book 2) says the means of creation was
evolution from lower life-forms, I think we should go with Book #2
because it brings evidence with it. In that case, Book 2 has
precedence, or can help interpret, Book 1. YEC's focus on Book 1, and
ignore anything from Book 2 that is contradictory to Book 1.

Ken Ham says he has nothing against science... he loves science. What
he dislikes is so-called "modern science." I guess what he likes is
"creation science."

Just my thoughts.

...Bernie

________________________________

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of George Cooper
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 10:40 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Creationism Conference

It is especially disappointing for me to see the disingenuous, at best,
approach used by some advocates for YEC in teaching others. To avoid or
obfuscate the many lines of evidence that support BBT or evolution in a
YEC presentation is highly unfair to others, especially our youth.
Further, to claim, as Ken Ham does in his video, that to not accept the
day as 24 hours will cause the "collapse of Christianity" is yet another
disquieting facet to their marketing.

Yesterday, I had lunch with my daughter, who's in college, and she has
been indoctrinated into the anti-evolution camp. When I began to calmly
offer the idea that God uses processes to accomplish His will and that
evolution is a very powerful and logical process, tears began to form in
her eyes because her Dad is, apparently, not the Christian soldier that
she hoped he would be.

Since many of my church friends are YECers, I know they are sincere
about their beliefs and don't deserve to be called liars. Yet some
YECers are far more knowledgeable about science and may deserve such
harsh accusation. It is wiser not to do so, as the reason has now been
made obvious.

My personal request is to get more people here, and some seekers of
truth within the YEC camp, to tackle the literal claims of M-Genesis.
My attempts to get people interested in taking the ideas serious seems
to fail, though I still await arguments that are logical against those
claims.

If Genesis was an eye-witness account, or a vision of what actually
happened, then it should be concordant with most of mainstream science,
especially the sciences that enjoy a confluence of evidence supporting
their theories.

A plausible literal view is all that is necessary to get many out of the
YEC rut, IMO.

Coope

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Received on Mon Jun 23 14:07:31 2008