Re: undoing the past (Was Re: [asa] The Fall (humanity source of suffering)

On 6/19/08, George Murphy <GMURPHY10@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Several things here.
>
> 1) I hope this isn't taken as a zap of anyone in particular or an
> expression of personal pique but it seems symptomatic of a lot of discussion
> on this list that the post I sent recently about Ted Peters book & prolepsis
> has been ignored in favor of various other speculations. I.e., the well
> worked out ideas of a professional theologian are bypassed & instead what
> gets discussed is various amateur "God might do this or that" blue sky
> stuff.

I plead guilty. That does not mean I ignored the Ted Peters post --
only that I had nothing particular to contribute to it.

"amateur blue sky stuff" is (alas) what I do a lot of. Usually it is
for the purpose of seeing if someone can shoot the ideas down -- or
turn them slightly into something different.

>
> 2) When people talk about divine omnipotence they ought at least to be
> aware of what the term means in the theological tradition. Its primary
> import is not that "God could do anything" but that "God does do
> everything." I.e., God is the ultimate or "First" cause of everything that
> happens in the world. Of course some people don't like that concept because
> of theodicy issues (among others). But if you reject the idea that God that
> God is the ultimate cause of everything then you are rejecting divine
> omnipotence - as Charles Hartshorne did in his book Omnipotence and Other
> Theological Mistakes.

I read the Hartshorne book last year. My recollection is that it was
interesting but not persuasive. Maybe I'll revisit it. (So many books,
so little time). <G>

> 3) The basic problem with the idea of God "undoing the past" is not with
> omnipotence or whether God could do it but with the integrity & goodness of
> creation. It's to be rejected for the same reason that the Christian
> tradition has generally rejected reincarnation. Our bodies, our physical
> makeups, matter to who we are & the physical makeup of the world - including
> the results of past events - matter to what creation is.

Possibly, unless one of the multiverse ideas is correct.

In any case, someday (fairly soon for geezers like me) we will all be
in a new life. The question haunts me -- will we remember the "bad
things?" How about the "bad people?" (I know -- we are all sinners,
but some of us have been touched by grace.)

Will we remember the Holocaust? Both a "yes" and a "no" answer seem strange.

Will I remember a childhood friend who renounced Christ after the YEC
views he had were falsified in college? Both a "yes" and a "no"
answer seem strange.

I assume I'll remember the stupid things I've done. Will I also
remember my sins? Scripture says that God won't. Maybe I'm reading
that part wrong.

In any case, as my web site story says, God once touched my family and
we have been forever changed. The young boy (now 39) in that story
took us out for dinner last Friday and the young girl (now 37) cooked
a Father's Day feast last Sunday. They have both blessed our lives
beyond measure.

Burgy

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Received on Thu Jun 19 17:29:53 2008