Re: [asa] The Fall (humanity source of suffering)

In order for the fall to explain any aspects of reality I think yoou have to
make the notion of the fall more precise than "...a partial insight into the
morally ambiguous character with which evolution endowed our species". While
I'm not sure I can accept Karl's point about the fall, I'm willing to try to
see if I can make the notion more precise in order to see whether it can be
developed into something I can accept.

"Morally ambiguous" suggests a standard by which character can be judged --
by humans, but more importantly by God. However, for God's commands to make
sense, humans must understand something of the concept of morality. It's
generally accepted that animals don't sin -- that they are not held
accountable for their behavior. The reason is that they are believed not to
have a moral consciousness -- at least not to the extent that humans do. In
the development of humans from lower forms of life many generations came and
went without our ancestors having the mental capacity to think about the
morality of their actions. But at some point some of them developed the
ability to empathize with their fellow creatures, as well as the ability to
think about morality and why they had moral convictions. We could postulate
that at that time God intervened -- revealed Himself. Essentially He would
be saying, "I am the source of the moral law". Fairly quickly someone
violated the moral law and that was the fall.

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
wrote:

> Nucacids said:
> "Human depravity. I think the greatest source of suffering and evil on
> this planet is humanity."
>
>
>
> You might have a point there, because even in great natural disasters, many
> more are killed when aid can't reach them. Sometimes (many/most times?) the
> aid is blocked because of politics and crime.
>
>
>
> …Bernie
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] *On
> Behalf Of *Nucacids
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:34 AM
> *To:* asa@calvin.edu
> *Subject:* [asa] The Fall
>
>
>
> Karl Giberson was interested in initiating a dialog about how evolutionary
> theory, a product of methodological naturalism, should cause us to rethink
> and reformulate (?) Christian theology. One change Karl advocates is as
> follows:
>
>
>
> "likewise the Fall must disappear from history as an event and become,
> instead, a partial insight into the morally ambiguous character with which
> evolution endowed our species."
>
>
>
> IMO, such a point has less to do with the history as it does with the
> *significance* of the Fall. Maybe I am wrong, but the sense I get from
> Karl's interpretation is that the Fall is only important in explaining our
> "morally ambiguous character" due to evolution. It almost seems trivial, as
> I am having a hard time envisioning how the evolution of human beings can be
> described as a "Fall."
>
>
>
> Regardless of whether the Fall is historic or symbolic of a deeper reality,
> it, as part of Christian theology, has long explained three fundamental
> aspects of our reality:
>
>
>
> 1. Human depravity. I think the greatest source of suffering and evil on
> this planet is humanity.
>
>
>
> 2. Natural evil. Others might think the greatest source of suffering and
> evil on this planet is Nature (for example, malaria is the number one cause
> of agony and death on this planet).
>
>
>
> 3. The hidden-ness of God. Not only are human beings subjugated to all
> the evil in #1 and #2, God is so hidden that it is easy for millions of
> human beings to deny He exists and even more view God in all kinds of
> contradictory ways.
>
>
>
> If the Fall is simply "a partial insight into the morally ambiguous
> character with which evolution endowed our species," then does the Fall
> really explain these aspects of our reality?
>
>
>
> - Mike Gene
>

-- 
William E (Bill) Hamilton Jr.
Rochester, MI/Austin, TX
248 821 8156
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