RE: [asa] An evolution quiz question about "Scientific creationism "

I was also surprised, at first, to hear a modern science book speak of
micro/macro evolution. Then, it seems like I hear some other scientists
saying it, like the Gould quote. But then there's the wiki quote saying
it is unintelligible. It makes me wonder what the real modern science
stance is with these two terms, or if there is consensus.

The quote I gave below (from the study guide) is interesting because it
shows what modern science students are being taught.

,,,Bernie
"It's turtles all the way down!"

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Iain Strachan
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:59 AM
To: Collin R Brendemuehl
Cc: asa
Subject: Re: [asa] An evolution quiz question about "Scientific
creationism "

This is what Wikipedia (admittedly not the fount of all wisdom!) had to
say:

The term 'microevolution' has recently become popular among the
anti-evolution movement, and in particular among young Earth
creationists. The claim that microevolution is qualitatively different
from macroevolution is fallacious as the main difference between the
two processes is that one occurs within a few generations, whilst the
other is seen to occur over thousands of years (ie. a quantitative
difference). Essentially they describe the same process.

The attempt to differentiate between microevolution and macroevolution
is considered to have no scientific basis by any mainstream scientific
organization, including the American Association for the Advancement
of Science.[2]

----
(The link Wikipedia gives doesn't lead to any AAAS statement making
that assertion, however).
My point was that YECs argue that microevolution can occur _within_ a
"created kind", so, apparently only one species of say dog-kind could
be taken on the ark, and mircoevolution since the flood could account
for all the various dog-kinds.
What they refuse to accept is that given sufficient time, different
species emerge from a common ancestor, so that they can't interbreed
(as, I believe, most dogs can).
I felt that the definition given from your book wasn't sufficiently
clear to distinguish it from the YEC interpretation (variation within
a kind).
Iain
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Collin R Brendemuehl
<collinb@brendemuehl.net> wrote:
> Iain,
>
> Micro and Macro are used in mainstream science.
> Gould explores them in The Structure of Evolutionary Theory.
> But YECs seem to treat them differently.  For YECs "micro" implies
> (depending on the group or person) either static species or at best
short
> trees
> whereas "macro" describes something that never happened.
> (I've not heard anyone talk of static species for along time now.)
>
>
> At 03:39 AM 6/3/2008, you wrote:
>
> I think that's a really strange question, and quite a strange answer.
>
> I had understood that "microevolution" and "macroevolution" were terms
> used a lot by creationists, but not in mainstream science.  Also the
> way it's phrased "patterns of change among different groups of
> species" doesn't sound that different to what creationists argue -
> microevolution they accept within the different created kinds.
>
> To achieve the terminology "macroevolution" (I presume the asterisk
> means that is the author's indication of the correct answer), implies
> evolution of one species into a different species via some common
> ancestor.  The phrase "among different groups of species" doesn't
> quite capture that for me - more likely "giving rise to different
> groups of species".
>
> Iain
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Dehler, Bernie
<bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> wrote:
>> I thought I'd pass on something interesting.  I have this "book"
(study
>> guide):
>>
>> "The Ultimate Study Guide for Biology: Key Review Questions and
Answers
>> with Explanations" Copyright 2005
>>
>> Link:
>>
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Study-Guide-Biology-Explanations/dp/19330
>> 23015/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212474316&sr=8-4
>>
>> Comments about this part?  The following is a quote... question and
>> comment by author:
>>
>> Pg. 6
>> 25. Patterns of change among different groups of species over a
certain
>> time period is most closely referred to as:
>>
>>  a. microevolution
>> *b. macroevolution
>>  c. scientific creationism
>>  d. survival of the fittest
>>
>> Microevolution shows how a specific population changes over time due
to
>> modifications in allele frequencies.  Scientific creationism is a
belief
>> that the beginning of earth and life was created by God.  Also,
>> scientific creationism does not believe in Darwin's theory of
evolution.
>>
>> Bernie's comment:
>> It is interesting how the author uses "Scientific creationism" to
>> describe what I think we would term as "young earth creationism."
>>
>> It says:
>> "Scientific creationism is a belief that the beginning of earth and
life
>> was created by God."  But all creationists believe that God created
>> everything- even TE's which accept evolution.
>>
>> I guess I have to give it credit for at least saying something- some
of
>> the questions have no comments, but the author felt compelled in this
>> one to give a little explanation.
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
>> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -----------
> Non timeo sed caveo
>
> -----------
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Collin Brendemuehl
> http://www.brendemuehl.net
>
> "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot
lose"
>                                                      -- Jim Elliott
-- 
-----------
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