Re: [asa] An evolution quiz question about "Scientific creationism "

Hi Iain,

> What they refuse to accept is that given sufficient time, different
> species emerge from a common ancestor, so that they can't interbreed
> (as, I believe, most dogs can).
>

This statement used to be true of the YEC movement but no longer. If fact,
AIG has this as one of those "arguments not to use anymore" and promotes
"rapid speciation". See:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp

From the link above:

"No new species have been produced."
This is not true—new species have been observed to form. In fact, rapid
speciation is an important part of the creation model. But this speciation
is within the "kind," and involves no new genetic information. See Q&A:
Speciation.

thanks,

On 6/3/08, Iain Strachan <igd.strachan@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is what Wikipedia (admittedly not the fount of all wisdom!) had to
> say:
>
> The term 'microevolution' has recently become popular among the
> anti-evolution movement, and in particular among young Earth
> creationists. The claim that microevolution is qualitatively different
> from macroevolution is fallacious as the main difference between the
> two processes is that one occurs within a few generations, whilst the
> other is seen to occur over thousands of years (ie. a quantitative
> difference). Essentially they describe the same process.
>
> The attempt to differentiate between microevolution and macroevolution
> is considered to have no scientific basis by any mainstream scientific
> organization, including the American Association for the Advancement
> of Science.[2]
>
> ----
> (The link Wikipedia gives doesn't lead to any AAAS statement making
> that assertion, however).
>
> My point was that YECs argue that microevolution can occur _within_ a
> "created kind", so, apparently only one species of say dog-kind could
> be taken on the ark, and mircoevolution since the flood could account
> for all the various dog-kinds.
>
> What they refuse to accept is that given sufficient time, different
> species emerge from a common ancestor, so that they can't interbreed
> (as, I believe, most dogs can).
>
> I felt that the definition given from your book wasn't sufficiently
> clear to distinguish it from the YEC interpretation (variation within
> a kind).
>
> Iain
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Collin R Brendemuehl
> <collinb@brendemuehl.net> wrote:
> > Iain,
> >
> > Micro and Macro are used in mainstream science.
> > Gould explores them in The Structure of Evolutionary Theory.
> > But YECs seem to treat them differently. For YECs "micro" implies
> > (depending on the group or person) either static species or at best short
> > trees
> > whereas "macro" describes something that never happened.
> > (I've not heard anyone talk of static species for along time now.)
> >
> >
> > At 03:39 AM 6/3/2008, you wrote:
> >
> > I think that's a really strange question, and quite a strange answer.
> >
> > I had understood that "microevolution" and "macroevolution" were terms
> > used a lot by creationists, but not in mainstream science. Also the
> > way it's phrased "patterns of change among different groups of
> > species" doesn't sound that different to what creationists argue -
> > microevolution they accept within the different created kinds.
> >
> > To achieve the terminology "macroevolution" (I presume the asterisk
> > means that is the author's indication of the correct answer), implies
> > evolution of one species into a different species via some common
> > ancestor. The phrase "among different groups of species" doesn't
> > quite capture that for me - more likely "giving rise to different
> > groups of species".
> >
> > Iain
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> > wrote:
> >> I thought I'd pass on something interesting. I have this "book" (study
> >> guide):
> >>
> >> "The Ultimate Study Guide for Biology: Key Review Questions and Answers
> >> with Explanations" Copyright 2005
> >>
> >> Link:
> >>
> http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Study-Guide-Biology-Explanations/dp/19330
> >> 23015/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212474316&sr=8-4
> >>
> >> Comments about this part? The following is a quote... question and
> >> comment by author:
> >>
> >> Pg. 6
> >> 25. Patterns of change among different groups of species over a certain
> >> time period is most closely referred to as:
> >>
> >> a. microevolution
> >> *b. macroevolution
> >> c. scientific creationism
> >> d. survival of the fittest
> >>
> >> Microevolution shows how a specific population changes over time due to
> >> modifications in allele frequencies. Scientific creationism is a belief
> >> that the beginning of earth and life was created by God. Also,
> >> scientific creationism does not believe in Darwin's theory of evolution.
> >>
> >> Bernie's comment:
> >> It is interesting how the author uses "Scientific creationism" to
> >> describe what I think we would term as "young earth creationism."
> >>
> >> It says:
> >> "Scientific creationism is a belief that the beginning of earth and life
> >> was created by God." But all creationists believe that God created
> >> everything- even TE's which accept evolution.
> >>
> >> I guess I have to give it credit for at least saying something- some of
> >> the questions have no comments, but the author felt compelled in this
> >> one to give a little explanation.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> >> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -----------
> > Non timeo sed caveo
> >
> > -----------
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Collin Brendemuehl
> > http://www.brendemuehl.net
> >
> > "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose"
> > -- Jim Elliott
>
>
>
> --
> -----------
> Non timeo sed caveo
>
> -----------
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>

-- 
Steve Martin (CSCA)
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