Re: Fwd: [asa] Is you doctor an evolutionist - if so, what then?

Descartes' cogito was anticipated by Augustine as a defeater to the then
prevalent skepticism. No matter what I doubt, I cannot doubt that I, the
doubter, exist. Descartes' claim implicitly involved the error that
thought was the key notion, whereas it is a matter of any experience.
Explicitly, he thought that it included an understanding of what existed,
namely a soul. But what I am is not given in the mere fact that I,
possessing mere awareness, exist. Note that solipsism is completely
consistent with the cogito.
Dave (ASA)

On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 04:49:27 +1000 Murray Hogg <muzhogg@netspace.net.au>
writes:
> Hi Iain,
>
> You're quite right - there IS a big difference between (A) believing
>
> that evolution has happened vs (B) basing one's ethics on it.
>
> BUT;
>
> (1) Regardless of the distinction between (A) and (B) (above) people
>
> still do (rightly or wrongly) take evolution as the starting point
> for
> ethics. I'm merely observing that medical ethics might not
> correspond to
> historical precedent in such a case.
>
> (2) it is a historical fact that evolutionary theory HAS been taken
> as a
> point of departure for medical ethics and that the consequences have
>
> been quite disturbing - to say the least.
>
> (3) when one is a thoroughgoing evolutionist of the sort Dawkins is,
>
> then one's only option IS to base ethics in evolutionary theory -
> either
> directly or indirectly. To do otherwise is to smuggle in assumptions
>
> which aren't justified on the basis of one's original starting
> point.
>
> Here the analogy is Descartes' philosophy: Descartes simply couldn't
> get
> past "I think therefore I am" - itself a highly questionable claim -
>
> without the arbitrary introduction of God into his philosophical
> schemata thereby undoing his entire rationalist project.
>
> In Dawkins case it's true that he need not ground his ethics in his
>
> evolutionary theory - but only if he introduces some arbitrary
> ground of
> ethics which "transcends" evolution. This is pretty hard to do when
> one
> so strongly insists on evolution as a total theory of everything.
>
> Of course, if Dawkins wants to concede that evolution is NOT a
> theory of
> everything, I will quite happily agree. After all, I'm not the one
> claiming that the natural order is all that exists. But if Dawkins
> does
> want to introduce something outside of evolution, then I'll be very
>
> interested as to what that something is and how that introduction is
>
> itself to be justified.
>
> Absent such arbitrary introductions, however, and we are left with
> evolution as the basis of any ethical claim which evolutionists of
> Dawkins' sort may wish to make. In which case, I think my original
> reservations re the medical ethics of doctors who are evolutionists
> are
> not lightly to be set aside.
>
> Blessings,
> Murray Hogg
> Pastor, East Camberwell Baptist Church, Victoria, Australia
> Post-Grad Student (MTh), Australian College of Theology
>
>
> Iain Strachan wrote:
> > Hi Murray ,
> >
> > I don't think i can quite buy in to your speculation. Surely there
> is
> > a big difference between believing that evolution as a process
> has
> > happened, and believing that it is the best principle for
> intelligent
> > humans to base their decisions upon.
> >
> > I believe Richard Dawkins once said "if I were God I wouldn't
> have
> > done it by evolution". Atheists often use evolution as a reason
> for
> > disbelieving in god because of the staggering amounts of suffering
> and
> > waste involved.
> >
> > Doctors seek to reduce suffering and to preserve human life;
> something
> > deemed much more important than survival of the fittest.--
>
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>
>
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Received on Sun Jun 1 22:44:55 2008