Re: [asa] public response

On May 19, 2008, at 8:16 PM, David Opderbeck wrote:

What is the context of this discussion? (BTW, McGrath has also clearly
written negative things about ID in his "Dawkins God" book).

I knew there was a quote there but I couldn't find it. So, If you could feed
me that it would be greatly appreciated.

Here's the context our church is promoting the Truth Project run by Focus on
the Family. Del Tackett runs this and has a blog. On that blog was an
unqualified support of the movie, Expelled. I sent what I will be quoting
below as a comment. It was held in moderation for a number of days so I
assumed it was in the same black hole of censorship that the Uncommon
Descent blog was. Hopefully, my further comments make it through. I let
Randy know of this along with our disappointment that our ASA meeting on
having a Christian worldview on technology while Michael Behe's talk was
packed. The latter was the usual retread of 15-year-old disproven points. It
was also a crass promotion of Expelled.

As we have been discussing here, I wanted to convey how completely
inaccurate Expelled is and more importantly how spiritually damaging it is.
On Saturday our board met and we were all pretty depressed. Our hope of
providing a place of attracting young Christians in the sciences was pretty
well dashed -- at least through evangelical churches. Because of all this
Expelled crap evangelical lay people do not have a clue of the spiritual
minefield we place in front of their children. They haven't heard the
stories we have of spiritual shipwreck that happens when they discover YEC
and ID is untrue and turn into militant atheists nor the gratitude when they
have found organizations such as the ASA. They don't know of the "expelled"
in our churches. When my daughter Hope was talking to her friends and not
knowing where I stand their take away from the movie was people who believe
evolution are not Christians. (Hope ably defended me so do not be surprised
if she shows up in your law school classroom!). They don't know that this is
a retread of history between the warfare model between faith and science and
evangelism:

I will not witness on the basis of evolution/creation arguments,
because Jesus Christ commands a higher witness in the Great
Commission: Acts 1: 6-8. If someone would like to believe in Jesus but
has a problem with the idea of creation in 6 days of 24 hours each, I
will describe the possibilities that I can accept as consistent with
the Bible and the natural world that we know. I will emphasize the
most important thing: that mankind was created by an all-powerful and
loving Creator who daily nourishes and sustains the human race, and
desires Salvation for all mankind (1 Timothy 2:4).
> -- Billy Graham

Thanks for your interesting letter of the 8th:—I can't have made my
position clear. I am not either attacking or defending Evolution. I
believe that Christianity can still be believed, even if Evolution is
true. This is where you and I differ. Thinking as I do, I can't help
regarding your advice (that I henceforth include arguments against
Evolution in all my Christian apologetics) as a temptation to fight
the battle on what is really a false issue: and also onterrain very
unsuitable for the only weapon I have. Atheism is as old as Epicurus,
and very few polytheists regard their gods as creative.
> -- C.S. Lewis

So, I commented the following on the blog. And the rest is history.
Please pray that God can use
the ASA and myself as ambassadors of His peace.

>
> Hi. I am on the board of the Rocky Mountain Section of the American Scientific Affiliation, a fellowship of Christian Technologists and Scientists. The movie claims to do at least two things, one to support people like ourselves, believers in the scientific community, and to promote honest and open debate. Sadly, in my opinion, it has done neither. People line up either on one side or the other and only talk to their own side.
>
Del, you are involved with the Truth Project. The highest
manifestation of this is found in the Ninth Commandment of not bearing
false witness. From my own experience, what is portrayed in the movie
bears little resemblance to what is going on in the scientific
community because the atheists are just a noisy minority. A large
percentage of those who see evidence that evolution is an accurate
description of nature are theists and even Christians. Most of the
interactions between believing and secular scientists are cordial and
believers like myself can express our Christian faith openly without
fear of persecution. In fact, to portray us as being persecuted does a
disservice to those around the world who are truly martyred for our
Lord.

Unfortunately, all the lay people see is the bomb throwers on either
side. Alister McGrath, who was interviewed in Expelled and is also a
theistic evolutionist, calls this the "warfare model" and it is not
the historically normal relationship between science and faith which
is to be at peace. All truth meets at the top because God is the God
of truth.

What is desperately needed is people who are truly dedicated to the
truth and not just promoting "their side". Believers in science are
caught in the middle and while you think you are doing us a favor, you
are not.

In order to remedy this we have set places for both sides of the
debate on our website
www.asa3.org
. We even have commissioned an attempt to have a balanced and very
long review of the movie here:
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Schloss200805.pdf

Please also note another review of the movie done by the apologetics
group, Reasons to Believe. Like many in the ASA they believe this
movie has created more heat than light and has made their mission to
bring the Gospel to the scientific community that much more difficult.
Their review can be found here:

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/expelled.shtml

Your Brother in Christ,

Rich Blinne

Member, American Scientific Affiliation

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Rich Blinne <rich.blinne@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Randy Isaac <randyisaac@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Rich,
>> It looks as if at least one person wants to continue an "open and honest
>> debate." I think portions of Jeff's review would be quite relevant here.
>> http://deltackett.com/
>>
>> How can we convey the point that it is not that doubts about evolution,
>> per se, are not acceptable but that it is the quality and method in which
>> those doubts are brought forward. The scientific community would be
>> extremely interested in any data that would alter our understanding in any
>> way. But those skepticisms and questions must go through the same rigor of
>> scientific review and methodology as anything else. And until they do, the
>> doubts are just that, and not legitimate scientific results. Most of all,
>> any attempt to insert such claims that bypasses the normal process is bound
>> to gather pushback.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>
> Here was my response.
>
> Del, thanks for your considered response. Due to the length I will address
> only a couple of points.
>
> "This kind of survey is extremely interesting to me and I would love to see
> the data. How many "scientists" hold to theistic evolution, atheistic
> evolution, or have serious doubts about evolution?"
>
> A grad student, Whitney Gray, decided to contact the list of skeptics of
> evolution from DI's list. He limited himself to the biologists and
> bio-chemists. He asked them all a simple question.
>
> Do you believe in common descent?
>
> All but two answered yes.
>
> Michael Behe gave the following more extended answer:
>
> "Yes, I think we share an ancestor with other primates. However, I don't
> believe that the process leading to the appearance of humans was Darwinian."
>
> Clarifying question: Would it be correct to say that you feel we share a
> common ancestor and through guided mutations and natural selection, humans
> arose?
>
> Answer: Yes, that's right.
>
> Dr. Fred Sigworth denies rejecting Common Descent and recommends TE Ken
> Miller's book Finding Darwin's God.
>
> Dr. Dan Kuebler denies rejecting Common Descent and evolution and asked
> unsuccessfully to be taken off the list.
>
> Professor Paul Koval said in the many public lectures he has given in the
> last 15 years he recalls never saying evolutionary theory is wrong.
>
> You continue, "Then correlate those answers with their various views of
> God, the Bible, etc."
>
> The major books that go against the New Atheism are all by theistic
> evolutionists (Keller, McGrath, D'Souza, and Collins). Yes, Alister McGrath
> from Expelled is a Theistic Evolutionist as well as John Polkinghorne. Here
> is what Polkinghorne has to say about evolution and intelligent design:
>
> "Evolution clearly happens and there is very strong genetic evidence for
> the evolutionary connection of most animals including man. …
> Similarly, the idea proposed by some ID advocates that certain biological
> systems couldn't possibly have evolved is almost certainly wrong."
>
> The new Evangelical Manifesto says the following:
>
> "All too often we have disobeyed the great command to love the Lord our God
> with our hearts, souls, strength, and minds, and have fallen into an
> unbecoming anti-intellectualism that is a dire cultural handicap as well as
> a sin. In particular, some among us have betrayed the strong Christian
> tradition of a high view of science, epitomized in the very matrix of ideas
> that gave birth to modern science, and made themselves vulnerable to
> caricatures of the false hostility between science and faith. By doing so,
> we have unwittingly given comfort to the unbridled scientism and naturalism
> that are so rampant in our culture today."
>
> For further historical information concerning evangelical support of
> evolutionary biology I would recommend the book by David Livingstone called
> "Darwin's Forgotten Defenders".
>
> You have asked a very important question because at the heart of who we are
> as evangelicals is fidelity to both the living and written Word. As brothers
> in the Lord we must always challenge each other to find the truth as iron
> sharpens iron. So, in that spirit, my question to you is why do you promote
> the work of Jonathan Wells who is a Moonie?
>
> Your Brother,
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
David W. Opderbeck
Associate Professor of Law
Seton Hall University Law School
Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
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