RE: [asa] The God hypothesis- a test

> So RC, suppose you were able to hand-pick the test groups. Group 1 was
> Christians, trained in prayer as you suggest. Group 2 is avowed
> atheists. Group 3 is a control group mixed with unknown people. Do you
> think you could conduct a test to show that God is real because he
> answers pray, even sometimes, and show it statistically?

The problem with this is that there will actually be no way to assure that
Group 1 is truly different than Group 3, since "no one knows the heart of
a man except God." (personal paraphrase) Also, Scripture says "the prayer
of a righteous man availeth much," but who among us is righteous? The only
truly righteous individuals are those who have the imputed righteousness
of Christ, and are a part of the Church universal. Yet we can't really
know who they are. We can get an idea by their works, but we may
inadvertantly pollute our Group 1 with a few tares among the wheat.

> Also, if you could do such a test, would it displease God? Jesus said
> "don't put the Lord your God to the test" when tested by Satan in the
> desert. But in Malachi God says "test me in this..." in regards to
> tithing; and in Isaiah he mocks those who are superstitious and says
> "come let us reason together."

In regards to tithing in Malachi, God was speaking directly to the nation
of Israel, and specifically about their tithing. This was not a universal
directive. The statement to Satan may have had more universal meaning, but
I'm not sure. Good question.

> My atheist friend said something
> interesting, that God doesn't want to be tested because He's not there,
> and a test would prove it.

I wouldn't call this comment interesting, I'd call it irrational. God
cannot both "be there" so as not to want something, and be "not there" so
as to fail the test, simultaneously.

> Would God be insulted or displeased in a
> test of his existence? By the way, people who debate and show evidence
> of God using logic, such as William Lane Craig and others (like CS
> Lewis), isn't that a way of "testing God" to see if He holds water
> logically? The assumption is that if God didn't pass "logical tests"
> then He wouldn't be worth believing in, like the invisible pink unicorn
> or the flying spaghetti monster.

Since logic is foundational to our world and our rational existence, it
must come from God. I'm not sure what sort of "logical tests" you're
referring to. Can you offer an example?

Best,
RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: RC Metcalf [mailto:rcmetcalf@thinkagain.us]
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 6:19 AM
> To: Dehler, Bernie; asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: [asa] The God hypothesis- a test
>
> I have yet to see a scientific test designed to study the efficacy of
> prayer
> that is able to control all outside factors. I don't think such a test
> is
> possible, which is why I think testing for God's existence from
> sociobiologic prayer studies is misguided. There are other, more
> reasonable, methods of testing for God's existence.
>
> If you consider the biblical criteria for prayer suggested by the late
> 19th
> century Princeton theologian Charles Hodge, the inadequacy of prayer
> studies
> becomes self evident. Hodge said effective payer must exhibit:
>
> 1. Sincerity
> 2. Reverence
> 3. Humility
> 4. Importunity
> 5. Submission
> 6. Faith
> 7. Asking in the name of Christ
>
> Dawkins, Harris and Stenger all cite the same prayer study in their
> books.
> If I recall accurately, that study had people in various cities in the
> country pray for people they didn't know, except by first name. Even if
>
> every other factor existed, I submit that it is impossible to pray with
> sincerity and importunity under such circumstances. I think many modern
>
> Christians have adopted a more lackadaisical approach to prayer than we
> ought, hence we aren't as apt to recognize the importance of importunity
> in
> our prayer life unless we're thrown into the middle of a dire situation
> and
> the target of our prayers is someone dear to us.
>
> Blessings,
> RC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> To: <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:24 PM
> Subject: [asa] The God hypothesis- a test
>
>
> Hi all-
>
> A scientific question about God. Is it possible to test for the
> existence of the Christian God? Here's a scenario.
>
> Hypothesis: Those who are born-again Christians are born of the Spirit
> and have a new relationship with God. They can pray to God, and God
> will sometimes answer their prayers.
>
> Test: Take two groups. One group has self-identified born-again
> Christians, the other are self-described atheists. Both groups
> write-down their goals (career, medical needs, etc.) The Christian prays
> for their needs, while the atheist doesn't. Then see if there is a
> statistical difference. (This is a broad outline; a real test would
> have much tighter rules and controls.)
>
> If God exists, wouldn't this "catch Him in the act?" Is this a valid
> test and hypothesis? I'm vaguely aware that some have actually tried
> such a hypothesis/test (similar) and saw no statistical difference. If
> there's no difference between the groups, does that mean that either God
> doesn't exist, or God doesn't care (as Jesus taught that God our father
> cares for us)?
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Fri May 16 11:14:09 2008