Re: [asa] Feedback wanted (resurrection)

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 12:46 PM, David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I think this is a fair question in many ways, Bernie, but I don't think 1
> Cor. 15 is the right text. The context there is whether Christians, who
> base their lives and eternal hopes around belief in the risen Christ, have
> wasted their lives if Christ hasn't been raised -- and Paul's answer is a
> resounding yes. But if Christ has not been raised, that doesn't mean
> non-Christians have no hope -- in fact, they would presumably have more hope
> than us -- v. 19, "If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to
> be pitied above all men," suggests clearly that others would be better off
> than us in that event.
>

The hope of an atheist in this case seems to be roughly analogous to people
in a western country (whose worry is about paying $4 per gallon for gas)
who can be said to have more hope compared to a man in Burma whose family
was washed away and is sitting in a pile of rotting dead bodies, with no
source of food, shelter, or income. This week people are talking about
this a lot - how westerners have vastly more hope than earthquake victims in
China. But it is an empty hope. A hope to be more comfortable for a tiny
span of time on this earth - and that is all. It is also a hope where there
can be no concept of any true justice. All earthly forms of justice are
flawed. I don't see this type of earthly hope as any reason to rejoice. In
fact it is a reason to dispair. Happiness based solely upon earthly
comfort is empty. The real source of happiness in life is not based upon
comfort, but is based upon relationships with people because people are
eternal. Except for the atheist, who of course doesn't believe people are
eternal.
This surely presents an unsolvable problem for the atheist, who must look at
people as being as mere temporary occurrences, like rocks on the beach.

I also think Paul was talking about Christians, if their hope is in vain,
are more miserable because they realize what they missed. Non-believers
don't have this realization.
Is ignorance really bliss?

So the point in this particular passage isn't that unbelievers have no hope;
> it's that believers in Christ have hope in Chirst only if Christ really was
> raised.
>
> If I were an atheist, I'd get really annoyed by "you have no reason for
> living" and "you have no basis for your morality" arguments. Of course many
> atheists can articulate reasons for living and reasons for morality; they
> aren't all dark nihlists who are ready to hang themselves. If nothing else,
> many would say, "my reason for living is that I enjoy life -- what more do I
> need?" and "my basis for morality is that everyone should have a shot at
> enjoying life -- why do I have to explain myself further to you?"
>
> IMHO, reason for living / reason for morality arguments shouldn't be played
> as argumentative trump cards. They should be offered, I think, in ways that
> show the winsomeness of a living faith in Christ. Hopefully the atheist
> will be attracted to the living Christ and realize the even deeper, even
> richer, even more meaningful prospect of a life of faith.
>
> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> wrote:
>
>> You might want to ask Dan Barker what reason for living he has. I've
>> heard the atheist response is "live for the moment" because that is all
>> you have, but I've heard other philosophers say that that is even
>> meaningless. I think they can only survive by blocking the question out
>> of their mind. Everyone has the hope for eternal life in some way, even
>> if it is a closet fantasy. Without that hope of eternal life,
>> everything is futile. We come from nothing and go to nothing.
>>
>> 1 Cor. 15:
>> 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been
>> raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless
>> and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false
>> witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised
>> Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are
>> not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been
>> raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is
>> futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen
>> asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in
>> Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
>> Behalf Of rcmetcalf@thinkagain.us
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 9:50 AM
>> To: asa@calvin.edu
>> Subject: [asa] Feedback wanted
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I only recently joined this mailing list after a visit with Randy Isaac.
>> I've been a member of ASA for quite a while, but somehow missed these
>> discussions (in part because my time is rather full already!). Randy
>> urged
>> me to join and I've enjoyed following some of the threads.
>>
>> Since many of you have backgrounds in physics, I have a small request...
>> My visit with Randy was preceded by an invitation to Tufts to debate Dan
>> Barker on the Resurrection. I recently placed my opening presentation
>> for
>> the debate on YouTube.com. I was hoping some of you might be willing to
>> look at it and offer feedback here in a thread. Constructive criticism,
>> comments, praise, etc... are all welcome. The video had to be split into
>> four parts since YouTube has a 10 minute upload limit. The total time is
>> around 35 minutes. Search for Tufts Metcalf-Barker Debate to find it.
>>
>> I'll be lecturing on this on Saturday at New Life Church here in
>> Colorado
>> Springs, so your feedback will be quite valuable. Thank you so much!
>>
>> Blessings & grace,
>> RC Metcalf
>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology

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Received on Fri May 16 09:15:56 2008