Re: [asa] Amazing Proteins

Hi PvM,

"So what is your point of your essay other than pointing out that
proteins play an important role in life on this world."

It's not a question of playing an "important role," as nucleic acids,
carbohydrates, lipids, even minerals, play important roles in empirically
known life. The question is whether proteins play an essential role in the
observed success of evolution.

Consider some of my unanswered questions:

For example, without proteins, and their manufacturing process, what becomes
of the blind watchmaker? Without proteins, and the latent functions
contained within, might not the blind watchmaker exist as the impotent,
crippled, blind watchmaker with no one to notice its existence? If so, how
much credit does the blind watchmaker really deserve?

With the help of proteins, evolution can turn a single cell into a complex
organism with a brain. What can the laws of physics, chance, and natural
selection do without proteins?

It's not just physics. Take Physics + Natural Selecion - Proteins. Are you
sure evolution would still be a success?

"As you pointed
out there was an RNA world, and perhaps even a lipid world where
evolution was extremely successful."

Yes, these are hypothetical constructs needed to bridge geochemistry with
cell biology. But even if there is truth to these speculations, my point is
only further strengthened, as no lipo-organisms or ribo-organisms exist.
Evolution and life quickly became vastly more successful once proteins and
their manufacturing process came on line, turning the old "successes" into
flops tossed into the dustbin of history. Since then, it's been a 3.5
billion history of marvelous success.

"Now an interesting question would
be: If the tape were replayed, would evolution follow a similar path."

Indeed. Take away proteins and there is no reason to think it would. .
The entire Tree of Life is a protein-dependent output. The main mechanisms
of generating variation? Protein-dependent. The phenotypes that are
selected? Protein-dependent.

Are you under the impression that evolution could design something like a
mammal without proteins? Why would you even think that?

"And yet I still wonder as to what the essay is all about? That a
blind watchmaker is the best explanation although there is still some
possibility for a seeing watchmaker at the beginning?"

If you are still left wondering, then we simply have a communication
impasse.

"I also would like to repeat my question to you and others."

Since I am having difficulty communicating my point, it does not make sense
to increase the noise-to-signal ratio by adding a variety of tangential
issues to the table.

-MikeGene

----- Original Message -----
From: "PvM" <pvm.pandas@gmail.com>
To: "Nucacids" <nucacids@wowway.com>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Amazing Proteins

> So what is your point of your essay other than pointing out that
> proteins play an important role in life on this world. As you pointed
> out there was an RNA world, and perhaps even a lipid world where
> evolution was extremely successful. Now an interesting question would
> be: If the tape were replayed, would evolution follow a similar path.
> And yet I still wonder as to what the essay is all about? That a
> blind watchmaker is the best explanation although there is still some
> possibility for a seeing watchmaker at the beginning?
>
>
> I also would like to repeat my question to you and others
>
> But you still have not answered by question. How do we turn this into
> a scientifically relevant position? How would ID explain all this? If
> I understand your position correctly you hold that at a particular
> instance in time we face a set of initial conditions that led to
> present day situation. Your argument is that perhaps the initial
> conditions were set up for evolution to be successful? That is an
> interesting idea but unnecessary at best and scientifically irrelevant
> lest we can argue why there is a non natural requirement for the
> initial conditions to have existed.
>
>
> On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 5:31 AM, Nucacids <nucacids@wowway.com> wrote:
>> Hi PvM,
>>
>> The Tree of Life is a Evolution is a protein-dependent output, leaving
>> me
>> to wonder to just what degree evolution is a protein-dependent
>> phenomenon.
>> There is speculation of an RNA world and there is sufficient
>> circumstantial
>> evidence that it may have existed. But even if true, it only strengthens
>> the point of my essay, as there are no ribo-organisms on the tree of
>> life.
>
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Received on Sat May 3 15:20:43 2008