Re: [asa] Amazing Proteins

Hi PvM,

"That's present day situation. That's like saying take oxygen and water
away and what remains?"

Good questions. If we take oxygen away, then I doubt very much that the
blind watchmaker could make something analogous to a bird or a butterfly.
Take water away, and there is no life.

Similarly, what if we take proteins away? With the help of proteins,
evolution can turn a single cell into a complex organism with a brain. What
can the laws of physics, chance, and natural selection do without proteins?

The Tree of Life is a Evolution is a protein-dependent output, leaving me to
wonder to just what degree evolution is a protein-dependent phenomenon.
There is speculation of an RNA world and there is sufficient circumstantial
evidence that it may have existed. But even if true, it only strengthens
the point of my essay, as there are no ribo-organisms on the tree of life.

-MikeGene

----- Original Message -----
From: "PvM" <pvm.pandas@gmail.com>
To: "Nucacids" <nucacids@wowway.com>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: [asa] Amazing Proteins

> On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Nucacids <nucacids@wowway.com> wrote:
>> Hi PvM,
>
>> "Of course, the possibility of a design explanation always exists but
>> the
>> question is not one of marveling at what proteins can do but rather, can
>> science explain the success of evolution?"
>
>> I see no need for the binary choice. On the contrary, perhaps we all
>> could
>> do with a bit more wonder than simply treating proteins as a brute
>> given.
>> After all, the success of evolution would seem to be largely dependent on
>> proteins. Take away proteins and where is the success of evolution?
>
> That's present day situation. That's like saying take oxygen and water
> away and what remains?
> t
>
>> "While early guesses suggested that time was insufficient to search
>> sequence space,
>> science has found that sequence space translates to a much smaller set
>> of
>> proteins."
>
>> This would simply speak to the amazing versatility of proteins and
>> enhance
>> the sense of marvel. And my point.
>
> Indeed, a fully natural explanation which displaces any 'design
> inference' to an instance that precedes the creation of the universe
> and placing it outside the view of scientific inquiry. We humans crave
> for answers to these 'why' questions and perhaps there will never be
> answers.
>
>
>> "We can of course always marvel at the physics involved but how do we
>> turn
>> this into a scientifically relevant position?"
>
>> It's not just physics. Take Physics + Natural Selecion - Proteins. Are
>> you sure evolution would still be a success?
>
> Sure? Well of course not, there is a level of contingency as well. SO
> we have chance and regularity and known processes. Would I have met my
> present day wife if I had not decided to take a particular decision.
> Would I ever have known the difference?
>
> I think what we need to appreciate is how evolution itself facilitates
> its own success. It's called evolvability.
>
> But you still have not answered by question. How do we turn this into
> a scientifically relevant position? How would ID explain all this? If
> I understand your position correctly you hold that at a particular
> instance in time we face a set of initial conditions that led to
> present day situation. Your argument is that perhaps the initial
> conditions were set up for evolution to be successful? That is an
> interesting idea but unnecessary at best and scientifically irrelevant
> lest we can argue why there is a non natural requirement for the
> initial conditions to have existed.
>
>
> Looking back it is incredibly unlikely that the rock that rolled down
> the slope ended up where it did and yet it had to end up somewhere. We
> may see a purpose in how the rock ended up exactly where it did but
> this seems not much dissimilar from the puddle of water that marveled
> at how the impression in the ground exactly matched its shape. And
> while it was evaporating it was still pondering the significance of
> this coincidence. My apologies to Douglas Adams.
>
>
>
> --
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>

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Received on Sat May 3 08:33:33 2008