RE: [asa] Neo-Darwinism and God's action

I suppose the assertion that God is outside space-time rests on the
_assumption_ that God created time (at least in the corner of existence in
which our universe resides) when "In the Beginning" happened. Also on the
assumption that "space" as we know it originated from an infinitely dense
glob of matter. God must be outside of space-time to create space-time or
to pre-exist before it. Being outside it doesn't preclude Him from
interacting with it.

I say assumption, because how do we know that time truly began 13.7 billion
years ago? How do we even know that space originated then? We know about
our universe, we can see to the edges of it and don't see any stars beyond.
But how do we know that that there aren't other whole universes out there,
vastly further away than the edges of our known universe? In that case, the
origin of our universe might have been merely the creation of a certain
organized region within the vast reaches of a much larger space and time
than we can even detect. Our inability to mathematically describe what came
before our universe may just be a limitation of our knowledge of the
physical laws and equations involved.

Or as an alternative view, what if there were multiple universes created by
God, each with their own self-contained fabric of space and time that are
undetectible to each other?

But I don't understand your question. You are questioning the suggestion
that God is outside spacetime. Are you suggesting that God might be
contained within spacetime rather than being outside it? One thing I do
know, God did enter into space and time at one point in our history, and
lived and died. All the rest, I suppose, is speculation.

Jon Tandy

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Jim Armstrong
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:35 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Neo-Darwinism and God's action

Re:

"Humans exercise free will in spacetime. However, God is outside spacetime."

I often hear this assertion. But this is a very specific and consequential
presumption/declaration which seems basically philosophical. It cannot be
verified, and is disputed. It provides a convenient plausibility
explanation, as you have used it. But there is no certainty that we can
extrapolate from a space/time existence of ours any such thing about the one
who brought that space/time entity into existence. Indeed, it is not our
experience that something may be brought into existence which is so totally
unlike the one who creates it. It's imaginative, and even tempting, but is
it right? What meaningfulness would there be in creating a space/time entity
if there were nothing in/of the Creator to identify or interact with that
entity in that characteristic? Moreover, it does not jibe with the Hebrew
notion of creation, which does not proceed from "nothing".

Is there some strong justification for this presumption other than its
explanatory convenience? Just wondering.

JimA [Friend of ASA]

Alexanian, Moorad wrote:

Humans exercise free will in spacetime. However, God is outside
spacetime. God's view of the whole of spacetime is like that in a
Minkowski diagram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_diagram )
where the whole of existence is laid down in front of God. The whole of
reality is like a Now for God since He is not embedded in spacetime.

Moorad

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Received on Fri Feb 15 17:00:44 2008