Re: [asa] The Hebrew for the Making of Man

I am bored. I don't think the OT was meant to be read like this and trying to get information on the exact location of the Flood etc.

It is a case of asking the wrong questions.

Michael
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: D. F. Siemens, Jr.
  To: dickfischer@verizon.net
  Cc: asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [asa] The Hebrew for the Making of Man

  Archer is an excellent commentator to cite when you want things to come out eisegetically. He will do anything to make scripture inerrant. Unfortunately, even he has not figured out how to make hares and hyrax chew their cud.
  Dave (ASA)

  On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:35:23 -0500 "Dick Fischer" <dickfischer@verizon.net> writes:
    Hi Dave:

    As I am sure you know the Hebrew language has certain limitations such as no verb tense, certain words do double duty such as earth/land, mountains/hills, heaven/sky, birds/insects, etc. Then they had peculiar manners of speech we don't use today. Add to that scribal glitches and translational difficulties and it is a wonder to me any of it makes sense at all. On this issue I'll defer to Gleason Archer who is a far better authority than I am.

    "Verse 16 should not be understood as indicating the creation of the heavenly bodies for the first time on the fourth creative day; rather it informs us that the sun, moon, and stars created on Day One as the source of light had been placed in their appointed places by God with a view to their eventually functioning as indicators of time ('signs, seasons, days, years') to terrestrial observers. The Hebrew verb 'wayya 'as' in v. 16 should better be rendered 'Now [God] had made the two great luminaries, etc.,' rather than as simple past tense, [God] made."

    You simply cannot expect the OT Hebrew to meet the same standards as you can apply to NT Greek. But if you insist on putting "create" in the text then use the past perfect tense which the writer couldn't have done even if he had intended it. Or assume the writer had no clue what he was writing about as you seem to imply.

    Dick Fischer

    Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association

    Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History

    www.genesisproclaimed.org

    -----Original Message-----
    From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of D. F. Siemens, Jr.
    Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 10:53 PM
    To: dickfischer@verizon.net
    Cc: asa@calvin.edu
    Subject: Re: [asa] The Hebrew for the Making of Man

    I know, add qualifications until the text says what you want it to say. The pattern of the fourth day is like the pattern of the fifth day, with the exception that the heavenly bodies were made and the sea creatures and birds created. The sixth day has the terrestrial creatures made and humans created. Are you going to argue that the terrestrial creatures "were made to function for a purpose"? Also, the light, the firmament, the seas, the dry land, could be understood as "made to function for a purpose." But they were not declared made.

    Dave (ASA)

    On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 22:25:33 -0500 "Dick Fischer" <dickfischer@verizon.net> writes:

      Hi Dave,

      I think given the limits of the Hebrew language they used that it isn't too big a stretch to see the word asah, translated "made," as more along the lines of "made to function for a purpose." I could be guilty of putting words in the mouths of the authors because I know what works and what doesn't, but I doubt the writer had believed the sun wasn't created until after vegetation was already growing. It wouldn't make any sense to him just as it makes no sense to us. They surely had some perception that the sun was beneficial to plants. And had he believed that God actually created the sun, moon and stars on the fourth day why didn't he use the word bara to express that? The word, asah doesn't have that meaning.

      Dick Fischer

      Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association

      Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History

      www.genesisproclaimed.org

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Received on Sun Feb 3 17:07:17 2008