RE: [asa] Confessional Statements and TE Views

Your last sentence opens all sorts of metaphysical possibilities. If purely physical measurements cannot detect a supernatural event, how can anyone deny an intelligence or an Intelligent Designer behind the workings of Nature?

 
Moorad

________________________________

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Sat 1/19/2008 1:25 PM
To: Alexanian, Moorad
Cc: dickfischer@verizon.net; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Confessional Statements and TE Views

Seems to me that Miller reconciles his faith as does the current pope.
While the latter has sometimes appeared to support ID, he also backs off
from such views. Certainly John Paul II specified that organic evolution
is more than a possibility.

Transubsubstanciation holds that the elements are transformed into the
body and blood of Christ without change in the accidents. So, modernizing
the view, the chemistry before and after should be the same. This lends
credence to a strengthened version of your last sentence.
Dave (ASA)

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:58:38 -0500 "Alexanian, Moorad"
<alexanian@uncw.edu> writes:
> I asked myself that question with regard to Kenneth Miller---Finding
> Darwin's God. Surely, Miller can do all sorts of experiments and
> determine all the physical properties of wine and bread before and
> after the transubstantiation. How then does Miller reconcile his
> Catholic faith with evolution is beyond me? Unless, of course, it
> may be that I understand neither Miller's Catholicism nor evolution.
>
>
>
> Moorad
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu on behalf of Dick Fischer
> Sent: Sat 1/19/2008 11:35 AM
> To: ASA
> Subject: RE: [asa] Confessional Statements and TE Views
>
>
>
> Does every Catholic believe in transubstantiation (that the wine
> consumed during communion physically turns into the blood of
> Christ)?
>
>
>
> Dick Fischer
>
> Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association
>
> Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
>
> www.genesisproclaimed.org <http://www.genesisproclaimed.org/>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]
> On Behalf Of David Opderbeck
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:02 PM
> To: ASA list
> Subject: [asa] Confessional Statements and TE Views
>
>
>
> I'm curious how TE's who are part of a confessional tradition
> understand their confessions with respect to original sin. For
> example, if you're Anglican, CRC, or Lutheran, and a TE who accepts
> human evolution, can you in good conscience assent to your
> confessional statements concerning original sin (below)? Is there a
> tradition within protestant confessional churches of some
> flexibility in personal interpretation of the confessions?
> (Obviously I'm betraying my very low-church evangelical roots here).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For example, the 39 Articles (Anglican / Episcopal) say:
>
>
>
> IX. Of Original or Birth-Sin.
> Original sin standeth not in the following of Adam, (as the Pelagians
> do vainly talk;) but it is the fault and corruption of the Nature of
> every man, that naturally is engendered of the offspring of Adam;
> whereby man is very far gone from original righteousness, and is of
> his own nature inclined to evil, so that the flesh lusteth always
> contrary to the Spirit; and therefore in every person born into this
> world, it deserveth God's wrath and damnation. And this infection of
> nature doth remain, yea in them that are regenerated; whereby the
> lust of the flesh, called in Greek, p¢vnæa sapk¢s, (which some do
> expound the wisdom, some sensuality, some the affection, some the
> desire, of the flesh), is not subject to the Law of God. And
> although there is no condemnation for them that believe and are
> baptized; yet the Apostle doth confess, that concupiscence and lust
> hath of itself the nature of sin.
>
> The Belgic Confession (CRC) says:
>
>
>
>
> Article 16
>
>
> The Doctrine of Election
> We believe that-
> all Adam's descendants having thus fallen
> into perdition and ruin
> by the sin of the first man-
>
> The Augsburg Confession (Lutheran) says:
>
> Article II: Of Original Sin.
>
> 1] Also they teach that since the fall of Adam all men begotten in
> the natural way are born with sin, that is, without the fear of God,
> without trust in God, and with 2] concupiscence; and that this
> disease, or vice of origin, is truly sin, even now condemning and
> bringing eternal death upon those not born again through Baptism and
> the Holy Ghost.
>
> 3] They condemn the Pelagians and others who deny that original
> depravity is sin, and who, to obscure the glory of Christ's merit
> and benefits, argue that man can be justified before God by his own
> strength and reason.
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Sat Jan 19 16:55:39 2008