Re: [asa] A graduate student speaks out

I agree with David Opderbeck, that the particular site Jack recommended is
maintained by a person who really does *not* "have his head on," relative to
the general religion/science package. He's clearly enamored of the modern
"warfare" school of Dawkins and company. He obviously thinks that all or
most Christians are idiots. Many years ago, when reviewing for "American
Scientist" a book by another person who uses science against traditional
religion (physicist Chet Raymo), alongside a book by Polkinghorne, I
concluded by asking what a genuine conversation with Polkinghorne (with whom
Raymo had only a passing familiarity, having shown no evidence of
understanding Polkinghorne's views) would be like. I would ask the same of
the person maintaining the site Jack sent us to. I won't hold my breath
waiting for him to put his head on and have that conversation.

Pim responds on this thread with his stock comment, this time expressed in
two sentences as follows:

>>> PvM <pvm.pandas@gmail.com> 01/11/08 9:18 PM >>>
In this case he is 'making fun' of the lack of scientific depth of a
Christian. We should all remember St Augustine here.

I now respond to Pim.

Pim, I agree that Augustine had good advice for Christians of all ages,
advice that you rightly direct at persons in some situations. But it isn't
a case of "one size fits all." I cannot recall ever seeing you do either of
the following two things. (1) Criticize anyone who uses science to attack
religion generally or Christianity specifically--not even someone who hates
Christianity as much as Dawkins does. Perhaps you have done this, Pim, and
if so I've missed it or have forgotten, and I invite correction. (2) Make
any constructive comments about how Christians *ought to* engage science. I
repeat what I just said about perhaps missing something, Pim, but have you
done this? If not, do you have any thoughts about this? You say you are a
Christian, you are obviously interested in science (I think you are a
scientist?), you belong to PT and therefore follow at least one (rather
narrow) area of contact involving religion and science. The ASA (which to
the best of my knowledge you are not a member of) exists in order to be
helpful to Christians who want to engage science: that is what we are about,
simply put. Do you have any positive thoughts of your own about this? I am
not calling for you to cite Augustine yet again, as your response--indeed
that's what I'm asking you not to do. We understand your views on that and
usually accept them (most ASA member don't need to be brought up to speed
about Augustine). Do you have anything else to say?

The absence of (1) and (2), unless I've missed it, combined with the
constant invocation of a single passage in Augustine, suggests to me (at
least) that you have a one-track mind on sci/rel interaction--and that's not
really a good thing, IMO, esp when the one issue you focus on is so
politically charged. I hope I'm wrong about that, Pim, and if so it would
be good to round out the picture for me. Please help me do that.

Thanks,

Ted

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Received on Sat Jan 12 11:52:40 2008