Re: [asa] Teaching ID and teaching that Gobal Warming is not real

Now that is a reasonable position given the evidence. Human caused
global warming is real. The question now moves from science to
politics: What, if any, are we going to do about it?

On Jan 5, 2008 8:37 AM, John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> I agree. As mentioned before on this list, we had Dr. Kim Cobb of GA Tech
> who is a Climatologist come an present to our RTB Chapter last year and she
> said exactly what Don stated below. Their is consensus among scientists
> about the warming and even anthropogenic warming, but their is much less
> data and consensus supporting what exactly the options are and what can
> reasonably be done about it. Her presentation is online at the link below
> but that site appears to be down at the moment though.
>
> John
>
> http://shadow.eas.gatech.edu/~kcobb/
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Don Winterstein
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:26 AM
> To: Michael Roberts; asa
> Subject: Re: [asa] Teaching ID and teaching that Gobal Warming is not real
>
>
>
> Frankly, I think the "400 Prominent Scientists" deserve more of a hearing
> than most participants in this forum seem willing to give them. In
> particular, the "scientific consensus" doesn't appear to be as much of a
> consensus as some are claiming. Many of the statements contained in that
> referenced report (U. S. Senate Report:...) have at least some ring of truth
> to me as one who has been a professional Earth scientist (geophysicist) for
> 25 years.
>
> Not that I think there is no basis for the "scientific consensus" on global
> warming; as far as I know, the climate scientists who join in that consensus
> are doing "good Earth science." But once again I insist that Earth science
> is not physics, and much thought, debate and investigation must precede any
> political action that is based on Earth science predictions. The oil
> industry must spend its hundreds of millions drilling wells on the chance
> that their Earth scientists' predictions might be right; but to gamble in a
> similar way with the world's economy is a whole other level of risk-taking.
>
> It's fairly clear that economic development has been the road to improved
> standards of living. Politicians must be very careful about erecting
> roadblocks.
>
> Further, I find the term "GW deniers" offensive when applied loosely to
> anyone who questions any part of the "scientific consensus." I consider
> this expression, among others in a similar vein, to be part of an attempt to
> intimidate people and inappropriately shut down dissension. (Jump on our
> bandwagon, you idiots!) I suspect just about everybody acknowledges
> evidences of climate warming, particularly as it manifests itself in the
> northern polar regions and in observed glacier shrinkage. Not everyone is
> willing to accept the "scientific consensus" predictions concerning what
> those evidences mean. The predictions may well be the best that scientists
> can do from their models, but Earth science models are notoriously prone to
> error.
>
> Scientists must generate the best possible models, but in Earth sciences
> they must be willing not to take them too seriously and improve them over
> time.
>
> Unlike Earth scientists' predictions in the petroleum industry, which are
> tested regularly, the climate scientists predictions have never truly been
> put to significant tests. It's one thing to get a good match with the past,
> it's an entirely different thing to predict the future. Earth science is
> full of unknowns, and it necessarily relies on data that often need to be
> "conditioned." And unlike in physics, no one controls the systems being
> investigated.
>
> Don
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Roberts
> To: David Campbell ; asa@calvin.edu
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [asa] Teaching ID and teaching that Gobal Warming is not real
>
> We also need to note that GW deniers include Calvin Beisner who has weird
> ideas of the curse, yet is listened to by the Acton Inst , SBC and gave a
> hairy deposition to the senate last year.
> See the various depositions on
> :
> http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Hearings.Hearing&Hearing_ID=e39940af-802a-23ad-4371-252edd78194f.
>
>
>
> : Here's what he wrote!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> . On July 25, 2006, the ISA responded with An Open Letter to the Signers of
> "Climate Change: An Evangelical Call to Action"...and Others Concerned About
> Global Warming, signed by more than 130 scholars, theologians, scientists,
> economists, and other leaders, including James A. Borland, D. A. Carson,
> Guillermo Gonzalez, Wayne Grudem, James Kennedy, Michael Oard, Joseph A.
> Pipa, Robert L. Reymond, and Jay W. Richards.
>
>
>
> Thank goodness Cizik and Ball are countering this kind of nonsense.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>

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Received on Sat Jan 5 19:34:07 2008