Date: Fri Dec 21 2007 - 09:56:45 EST
As usual, there are as many opinions on the subject as people commenting on
it but I found this in the FAQ on Larson's website:
<http://www.bethlehemstar.net/assets/yellow_arrow.gif> The birth of Jesus
was announced to shepherds who are in the field with their flock. Does this
fix the announcement to a certain season of the year?
<http://www.bethlehemstar.net/assets/spacer.gif>
Not really. In the Mediterranean mid-East, flocks might be found at pasture
almost any time of year, weather permitting. The chronology of the Star may
imply that Jesus was born in September or June. Either is consistent with
flocks being in the field. In September, the average daytime high in
Bethlehem is in the mid-80's, Fahrenheit. Lows are in the mid-60's in the
wee hours of the morning. It is normal to run flocks in these temperatures.
Of course, June is warmer. Even in the dead of Winter and at 2,550 feet
elevation, it never freezes in Bethlehem.
Also, in the wikipedia entry on Saturnalia I found this:
Saturnalia's relation to Christmas
There is a theory that <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity>
Christians in the <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_century> fourth century
assigned <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_25> December 25 (the Winter
Solstice on the <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar> Julian
calendar) as <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ> Christ's birthday (and
thus <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas> Christmas) because
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism> pagans already observed this day as
a holiday. This theory is much disputed, as the dates of Saturnalia are not
coincident with Christmas. A more refined argument is that Christmas was set
on the feast of Sol Invictus <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus> ,
which was on December 25, and which had supplanted Saturnalia.
The 1908 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Encyclopedia> Catholic
Encyclopedia said that early Christians independently came up with the date
of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_25> December 25 based on a
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism> Jewish tradition of the "integral
age" of the Jewish prophets (the idea that the prophets of
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel> Israel died on the same
dates as their birth or conception), and a miscalculation of the date of
Jesus' death. [1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia#_note-0> But the
1967 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Catholic_Encyclopedia> New Catholic
Encyclopedia cites a hypothesis suggested by H. Usener as "accepted by most
scholars today", that "the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the
winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar ...) because ... the
pagan devotees of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithra> Mithra celebrated
the dies natalis
<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Solis_Invicti&action=edit> Solis
Invicti." [2] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia#_note-1>
I had never heard of this "integral age" of the prophets before but if that
is true, then Larson's theory could be right. interestingly though, he
concedes in his fact that Jesus could have been born any time of the year
but his star calendar does seem to be based off Dec 25th. I think it is
valid to say that the story had to involve these astronomical anomalies
though since it would take something like that to get the attention of the
wise men.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of David Opderbeck
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:35 AM
To: John Walley
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] The Christmas Story
There was an article in the Wall Street Journal today on the history of the
Christmas holiday. According to that article, Luke's reference to shepherds
"abiding in their fields, keeping watch over their flocks by night" means
Christ must have been born in the spring. In the winter, the author says,
the flocks were kept in pens, not in the fields. Further, the author says
Pope Liberius initiated a feast of the Nativity in 325 A.D., to coincide
with the Roman pagan holidays that were celebrated at that time of year, as
a way of getting people to come to church. He must have hired a "church
growth" consultant. However, the Wikipedia entry on Christmas makes it seem
that the Nativity was celebrated much earlier in the east, so I'm not sure
the Journal editorial got it right. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas)
On Dec 21, 2007 9:08 AM, John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes he does use Dec 25th because according to him in 2 BC "Jupiter reached
full stop in its travel through the fixed stars".
I have heard before that Christ was likely born in the spring, since that is
when they took the census. I wonder if he has every commented on this. I
can't find anything about it on his website. All the rest of the
astronomical evidences sound compelling to me though.
Thanks
John
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of gordon brown
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 10:41 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] The Christmas Story
I have problems with the dates. His placing of the first Christmas on
December 25 makes me especially suspicious of his approach to the subject.
Gordon Brown (ASA member)
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007, Christine Smith wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> John sent me this link off-list (so that he'd stay
> within his posting limit :) ), and I found it a really interesting
> read. Admittedly, I'm working on less than 6 hours of sleep, but the
> arguments sounded pretty well thought out and supported. Any other
> perspectives on the merits of the arguments presented?
>
> Thanks!
> Christine
>
> --- John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Offlist:
>>
>> This guy came to our church last year and although I
>> didn't get to hear him
>> I heard very favorable reviews and from checking it
>> out I think it is the
>> most plausible explanation of the Bethlehem Star of
>> all the ones that are
>> out there.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> John
>>
>> http://www.bethlehemstar.net/
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]
>> On Behalf Of Christine Smith
>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:44 PM
>> To: asa@calvin.edu
>> Subject: [asa] The Christmas Story
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Was contemplating the Christmas story and all of the
>> popular conjecture about both the story's origins
>> and
>> the holiday's origins. Specifically from a science perspective, I've
>> done a bit of reading about the Star
>> of Bethlehem and the theories about astronomical
>> events that this may have corresponded to. I was
>> wondering what your perspectives on the Christmas
>> story, the Christmas holiday, and the Star of
>> Bethlehem might be?
>>
>> Thanks ahead of time for the insights :) Merry
>> Christmas!
>>
>> In Christ,
>> Christine
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to
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>> asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>>
>>
>
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight" ~II Corinthians 5:7
>
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